What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
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09-01-2014, 12:09 PM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
Desolation - a resemblance to a primordial aquatic earth with only microbes or simple life forms able to adapt very well. Oh yeah, some nasty friggin weather with all the sun's energy heating up all that water!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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09-01-2014, 12:24 PM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
My answer:
Jesus had to clean up his mess just like children do when they play with their toys Laugh out load

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09-01-2014, 12:36 PM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
No coral reefs
No polar ice cap over Antarctica or great ice sheets over Greenland like there is now
No large freshwater lakes (like the Great Lakes)



"If what you say is actually true, I would want to know it too. ... You can convince me, and if it is true I want you to convince me ... and I will thank you for convincing me."

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09-01-2014, 12:56 PM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
(09-01-2014 11:42 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Or it would be very soggy. Like wet bread.


If the flood actually happened then the water levels would be 3 times more than it is right now.

Where the hell do Christians think all that water went anyway ? LOLLaughat

Dreams/Hallucinations/delusions are not evidence
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Disproved statements&Illogical conclusions are not evidence
Logical fallacies&Unsubstantiated claims are not evidence
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09-01-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
(09-01-2014 12:56 PM)IndianAtheist Wrote:  
(09-01-2014 11:42 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Or it would be very soggy. Like wet bread.


If the flood actually happened then the water levels would be 3 times more than it is right now.

Where the hell do Christians think all that water went anyway ? LOLLaughat

From AiG:
"The mountains rose up and the Flood waters went down where the ocean basins formed. Even evolutionists talk about the mountains being raised up like this, but they believe it happened over a long, long time. We believe that God did it very quickly at the end of the Flood. (By the way, that’s why we find so many sea fossils near the top of mountains. Makes sense, doesn’t it?) So, where is the water? I believe it is all still here. Did you realize that three-fourths of the earth is still covered with water?! The next time you go to the beach and watch God’s powerful ocean, remember you’re looking at the waters that once covered the entire earth during the time of the Flood!"

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-01-2014, 07:43 PM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
The answer to this is not simple because it depends on a lot of assumptions that no sane individual would make. Here goes though:

Assumption 1: Water depth. The bible indicates that all of the land was covered in water so you'd think we'd need enough to drown Everest's peak at 8.85 km ASL. Creationists have a penchant for driving plate tectonics at imbecilic speeds though so let's pretend that Everest isn't the highest peak around and that all we have to do is submerge Ararat. Ararat's a volcanic cone with a peak 5.14 km ASL. It can't have been active enough in the post-flood tectonic silliness for it to have grown much or it wouldn't have been a very hospitable place for Noah to dock the ark. Let's call it 5 km of water depth above present day levels.

Assumption 2: Delivery system. This is where things get tricky and I'll list these in order from most to least catastrophic:

2A: Dropped from Above. The bible states that "the windows of heaven were opened" so one potential source for the waters is from the sky. No matter how you do this it end poorly.

2A(i): Dropped from Space. Some creationists would like to deliver the flood water via an intense bombardment of comets. Oddly this may be how the Earth actually received much of its water with the significant difference that in the real world it would have happened long before the advent of life on Earth during what is lovingly known as the Early Heavy Bombardment and over geological timescales. Assuming we have 100% pure water comets with none of that pesky methane, ammonia, hydrogen cyanide or other goodies that they so commonly contain and assuming that they're ~10 km diameter spheres we'll need to drop one every 20 km or so in a grid covering the planet's surface. The slowest that anything hitting the Earth from space can be traveling is 11.2 km/s and since each of these comets masses half a trillion tonnes they'll hit with the energy of roughly 8 million Megatons of TNT every 20 km. To get any sense of what this means visit the Chicxulub Impact Structure, Vredefort Dome or Sudbury Basin. Each was created by an single impact of roughly this magnitude. The Sudbury Basin is the remnants of a crater estimated at 250 km in diameter, 30 km deep with 5 km of superheated melt sheet at the bottom. Now repeat this every 20 km. Forget the Ark, forget life. The Earth's crust is blasted to fragments and melted or vaporized along with a few tens of km of the uppermost mantle. The only flood will be a flood of lava, the only rain will be silica condensing from the atmosphere and falling as white-hot droplets. Thousands of years later the Earth's surface would still be too hot to solidify and the atmosphere would be a supercritical fluid similar to 55 Cancri e.

2A(ii) Dropped from Orbit. Some creationists want to park the flood waters in rings around the Earth and have these destabilize and fall to Earth causing the flood. This works little better than the cometary apocalypse above. The specific orbital energy of an object in Low Earth Orbit is a minimum of 32 MJ/kg. Since you're dropping 5 km worth of water depth, every square meter receives 5 million kg of water at an energy of 160 million MJ/m2 or about 40 kilotons TNT/m2. The Earth's crust is blown to flinders and diabatic decompression of the mantle leads to magmatism on an unimaginable scale. Today's Earth would resemble the Hadean period with microplates of volcanic rock rafting about a lava ocean. The atmosphere might not be quite hot enough to glow.

2A(iii) Vapor Canopy! For those of you unfamiliar with this gem, some creationists want to blanket the Earth in a canopy of "water vapor" which will subsequently condense and cause the flood. Sadly, pressure is pressure regardless of the state that the matter is in, so living under 5 km worth of water is like living at the bottom of the ocean. Atmospheric pressure would be 500 times what it is today and oxygen content would be diluted down to 0.1%. Nothing lives, much less builds Arks. Well, maybe some nifty extremophiles. Condensing the water, which isn't actually possible at these pressures, liberates the latent heat of vaporization at 2.26 kJ/kg. At 5 km water depth this amounts to 11.3 GJ/m2, a mere 2.7 tons of TNT/m2. The lower crust survives. Noah, the Ark and the menagerie won't be detectable with the finest forensic instruments. Modern Earth would be a lifeless wasteland of blasted sedimentary debris with basalt and komatiite erupting from the mantle through it.

2A(iv) Just Drop It. Best case scenario. Rain "just happens". Not very scientific of the Creation Scientists but WTF. Let's put the cloud base 1 km up. How bad can it be? A 5 km column of water dropped from 1 km up liberates 49 GJ/m2. That's just from rainfall. For 40 days and nights every square meter of the planet is struck by 1.5 kg of water per second at a power of 14 kiloWatts. That isn't rainfall, that's hydraulic mining. With rainfall rates exceeding 5 m/hr the Ark won't survive. Modern Earth is one vast sedimentary basin with mountain peaks sticking up here and there. Low-lying regions show the least effect being covered in water soonest whereas high-altitude plateaus and mountain peaks show the most extreme effects. Down-slope debris slide would be evident everywhere. Complex life might limp through.

2B Waters of the Deep. This is a favorite place for Ceationists to hide the water because nobody will have noticed it until God shouted Surprise! It works a little better than sticking it in the air but still ends to kill everything.

2B(i) Volcanic Eruption. So the fountains of the deep burst open and vent volcanic steam into the atmosphere enough to drop 5 km worth of water depth. Ignoring for the moment the issues with condensing and dropping the water noted above, what we're talking about here is a lovely little phenomenon called a pyroclastic flow. These are the glowing-hot clouds of steam and volcanic ash that did for Herculaneum. They typically range in temperature from 700 to 1000 C and can run out over water by virtue of boiling everything under them. This mechanism of producing the waters is catastrophic to say the least. The Ark fairs about as well as anything that's ever encountered one of these. The oceans boil as they're filled with volcanic ash and the land is scoured utterly clean. The air gets hot enough to glow, which will be handy since the sun's been blotted out. Water vapor condensing on the ash makes it stick together in mudballs called lapilli. When Mt. Pinatubo erupted through a hurricane it produced lapilli the size of grapefruit. This will make bigger ones that will be falling from the edge of space and get baked in the kiln of the atmosphere before they hit. Microbes might make it deep underground but complex life's had it. Modern Earth would be covered in volcanic ash, ignimbrite, tephra and lapilli.

2B(ii) Water just geyser up. Some deep reservoir of water releases enough to drown the Earth 5 km deep. Continental crust floats on water dontchya know. Ignoring for a moment the mechanical instability of perching rock on top of water, the water will be under tremendous pressure courtesy of all the rock sitting on top of it. It'd also likely be very hot. Imagine a tsunami of boiling water rolling across the landscape. This will be much worse. Water under that much pressure won't move as sedately as a tsunami. With the water being released, nothing's holding up the overlying rock, which collapses into the water reservoir, driving the pressure way up, shattering the reservoir cap catastrophically... Hey, this sounds a lot like a supervolcano eruption but with slightly cooler fluid and going off all over the globe! The Ark is smashed to kindling and everything on the surface is scythed away. Complex life might make it but I wouldn't give it good odds. Tardigrades inherit the Earth. Modern Earth has a distinctive jumbled super-tsunami sedimentary layer several hundred meters thick covering the planet and is populated by sentient water bears.
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09-01-2014, 08:14 PM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
I think you pretty much covered it... well done Drinking Beverage

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09-01-2014, 09:34 PM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
So how many take this story literally? Answer is disturbing from this 2004 article http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/f.../?page=all

'The poll found that 75 percent of Protestants believed in the story of creation, 79 percent in the Red Sea account and 73 percent in Noah and the ark.

Among evangelical Protestants, those figures were 87 percent, 91 percent and 87 percent, respectively. Among Catholics, they were 51 percent, 50 percent and 44 percent...Another Gallup Poll released in November found that six out of every 10 Americans said religion was “very important” in their lives — compared with 28 percent of Canadians and 17 percent of the British.
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10-01-2014, 01:35 AM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
See, this is why we need FTL travel. Just fly a few thousand light years out, turn around, and point a powerful telescope back in Earth's direction to see what actually happened.

...

....

... or, you know, just GTFO before the various religions get to fight for control of Jerusalem with nukes.
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10-01-2014, 01:59 AM
RE: What would we find if the Great Flood had actually Happened?
The whole world repopulated by Noahs jiz bags + incest,
population should all look more similar if its only been thousands of years, and probably a bit like this.
[Image: Inbred.jpg]

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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