What would you die for?
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15-11-2012, 05:46 AM
RE: What would you die for?
(15-11-2012 05:33 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I too see humans as evil fucks as a whole.
Something I've always wondered with statements like this - do you consider yourself an evil fuck as well?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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15-11-2012, 05:49 AM
RE: What would you die for?
(15-11-2012 05:46 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(15-11-2012 05:33 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I too see humans as evil fucks as a whole.
Something I've always wondered with statements like this - do you consider yourself an evil fuck as well?


I can be at times, but I try to live by certain rules that some others that are blatantly obvious don't. Also I said as a whole humans are evil fucks. There are exceptions, but the evil shits by far outweigh the good in the world.
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15-11-2012, 05:53 AM
RE: What would you die for?
(15-11-2012 05:49 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(15-11-2012 05:46 AM)Vera Wrote:  Something I've always wondered with statements like this - do you consider yourself an evil fuck as well?


I can be at times, but I try to live by certain rules that some others that are blatantly obvious don't. Also I said as a whole humans are evil fucks. There are exceptions, but the evil shits by far outweigh the good in the world.
The whole is a sum total of its parts.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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15-11-2012, 10:06 AM
RE: What would you die for?
The things I`d die for... hard to tell! Because the things I`d die for require me to live, learn and work for them. I could not die even for my parents,because I am here for a purpose and they invested so much into me,so I could go and work for that purpose. I do not believe my death could accomplish more than my life.

But sure in heat of the moment I might stick out my skin for someone, though I cant tell in advance.
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15-11-2012, 03:30 PM
RE: What would you die for?
(15-11-2012 05:46 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(15-11-2012 05:33 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I too see humans as evil fucks as a whole.
Something I've always wondered with statements like this - do you consider yourself an evil fuck as well?
If Humans are evil fucks "as a whole", and we ourselves are Humans, by default, we are evil fucks as well.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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15-11-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: What would you die for?
(15-11-2012 03:30 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  
(15-11-2012 05:46 AM)Vera Wrote:  Something I've always wondered with statements like this - do you consider yourself an evil fuck as well?
If Humans are evil fucks "as a whole", and we ourselves are Humans, by default, we are evil fucks as well.
And are they?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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15-11-2012, 03:38 PM
RE: What would you die for?
(15-11-2012 05:49 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  
(15-11-2012 05:46 AM)Vera Wrote:  Something I've always wondered with statements like this - do you consider yourself an evil fuck as well?


I can be at times, but I try to live by certain rules that some others that are blatantly obvious don't. Also I said as a whole humans are evil fucks. There are exceptions, but the evil shits by far outweigh the good in the world.
The analogy I like to use is that of a window screen. When you're up close; you see individual squares that are a little black around the edges, but are perfectly clear in the middle, through which you can see whatever beauty lies beyond.

But take a few steps back, and you'll see that the blackness of all those individual squares begins to fade together and you're left with a black haze.

Humanity is much the same. Most people (but certainly not all) are alright when you get them alone. Most of them have shitty qualities deep down, but they're pleasant to talk to. They're proably not gonna rape and kill your infant if you ask them to hold it. They may even keep an eye on your wallet for you while you run back to your car real quick. But get a bunch of them together in a group, and you'll see their more unsavory qualities begin to show.



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15-11-2012, 03:45 PM
RE: What would you die for?
(15-11-2012 03:38 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  The analogy I like to use is that of a window screen. When you're up close; you see individual squares that are a little black around the edges, but are perfectly clear in the middle, through which you can see whatever beauty lies beyond.

But take a few steps back, and you'll see that the blackness of all those individual squares begins to fade together and you're left with a black haze.

Humanity is much the same. Most people (but certainly not all) are alright when you get them alone. Most of them have shitty qualities deep down, but they're pleasant to talk to. They're proably not gonna rape and kill your infant if you ask them to hold it. They may even keep an eye on your wallet for you while you run back to your car real quick. But get a bunch of them together in a group, and you'll see their more unsavory qualities begin to show.
Oh, now we're shifting the whole thing to a completely different plane. Nothing worse or scarier than mobs and the mob mentality. Totally.

But we were talking about humankind, yes, all of it, but as individuals. Like, are people evil fucks who are not much better than a plague. And if yes, are you (not you personally, but whoever's making the claim) an evil fuck, too, or are you better than them. And if you think you're better than them, what makes you think so and what is to stop other people from saying that you're the evil fuck and they're the morally superior ones.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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15-11-2012, 04:03 PM
RE: What would you die for?
Several questions were posted about "Humanity as a whole", so, it's not really a "shift" to address those questions accordingly.

But on a more individual level; I engage in things today that I would have despised myself for not too long ago. When you're in a world of animalistic disgust and debauchery, you have two choices: keep your hands clean and waste away in solitude, or abandon yourself and become a part of the revelry. The real joke of it all, of course, is when you abandon yourself, become part of the revelry...and still waste away in solitude.

But, that's another story for another time.

Yes, as a Human being, I possess the inherent ability to be an evil fuck. Sometimes that trait is acted upon. And the true evil of acting upon it? Not caring afterward. Now granted, not all people fail to give a shit. I've personally been involved with people who hurt me deeply, but professed regret through tear-filled eyes afterward. And yet, they continued to do it. Their brittle sense of morality meant nothing, because deep down, we are animals. We evolved from a primordial sludge and grew up to live in trees. The ONLY difference now is that we've traded the trees for apartments and condos. Then we invented advanced weaponry and a huge network of communication with which we can reach out and affect someone on the other side of this jungle we call Earth.

Even the most altruistic act is done in the name of self-satisfaction. When we give to charity or help a child in need, we feel a release of dopamine in our brains. It makes US feel good. THAT is why we do it. We help others because it feels good to do so.

If each of us felt the sensation of being burned with fire each time we comforted a crying child or helped someone in need; we'd never engage in altruism again.

We are self-serving, self-centered little creatures. Even animals act upon instinct. They do horrific things, but it's because they're hard-wired in some way to do it. Only in the Human world can a man tie an infant to a chair and insert red-hot steel into its flesh, simply for the pleasure of hearing it scream. Only in the Human world can a woman fuck her husband's best friend, videotape it, and send it to her husband, simply for the pleasure of hurting him in the deepest way.

Calling Humans "animals" is almost an insult to our quadrupedal cousins who live in the woods.

None of us is excempt from this. We are ALL a part of the infectious, multiplying and resource-devouring plague that is Humanity. To assume myself superior would be the height of arrogance. Which, by the way, is another uniquely Human trait.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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15-11-2012, 04:30 PM
RE: What would you die for?
(15-11-2012 04:03 PM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Several questions were posted about "Humanity as a whole", so, it's not really a "shift" to address those questions accordingly.

But on a more individual level; I engage in things today that I would have despised myself for not too long ago. When you're in a world of animalistic disgust and debauchery, you have two choices: keep your hands clean and waste away in solitude, or abandon yourself and become a part of the revelry. The real joke of it all, of course, is when you abandon yourself, become part of the revelry...and still waste away in solitude.

But, that's another story for another time.

Yes, as a Human being, I possess the inherent ability to be an evil fuck. Sometimes that trait is acted upon. And the true evil of acting upon it? Not caring afterward. Now granted, not all people fail to give a shit. I've personally been involved with people who hurt me deeply, but professed regret through tear-filled eyes afterward. And yet, they continued to do it. Their brittle sense of morality meant nothing, because deep down, we are animals. We evolved from a primordial sludge and grew up to live in trees. The ONLY difference now is that we've traded the trees for apartments and condos. Then we invented advanced weaponry and a huge network of communication with which we can reach out and affect someone on the other side of this jungle we call Earth.

Even the most altruistic act is done in the name of self-satisfaction. When we give to charity or help a child in need, we feel a release of dopamine in our brains. It makes US feel good. THAT is why we do it. We help others because it feels good to do so.

If each of us felt the sensation of being burned with fire each time we comforted a crying child or helped someone in need; we'd never engage in altruism again.

We are self-serving, self-centered little creatures. Even animals act upon instinct. They do horrific things, but it's because they're hard-wired in some way to do it. Only in the Human world can a man tie an infant to a chair and insert red-hot steel into its flesh, simply for the pleasure of hearing it scream. Only in the Human world can a woman fuck her husband's best friend, videotape it, and send it to her husband, simply for the pleasure of hurting him in the deepest way.

Calling Humans "animals" is almost an insult to our quadrupedal cousins who live in the woods.

None of us is excempt from this. We are ALL a part of the infectious, multiplying and resource-devouring plague that is Humanity. To assume myself superior would be the height of arrogance. Which, by the way, is another uniquely Human trait.

Just a quick thing - there was a shift, mobs and humanity as a whole are two different things. Not that that's very important.

I really do not agree with you (or if I have moments when I feel like this, I fight them, but they are getting much less common with age), but I respect the fact that you do not set yourself apart. Because that's what really bugs me in discussions like this - people failing to see just how arrogant it is to claim that humankind is the worst thing that ever existed in the universe (which is crap imho) and yet exclude themselves from this disgusting mass of repulsive creatures.

So while I do believe that we are selfish and a lot of the things you claim we are, I also believe that there is a lot of good in people (as individuals and as a whole) and that we are moving forward and honestly trying.

I also do not agree about the lack of pure altruism, but that's been done to death. (Still, a very quick note - what about people working with kids with AIDS in Africa, where they see horrific deaths on a daily basis and do not get the self-congratulatory feeling of "Oh, I helped feed a child today. I'm great (I'm not even saying that this is how people who actually donate money feel, because this is diminishing their honest desire to help, but that's another story). So what do those people get out of what they do, other than the horrible pain of seeing unmitigated suffering, every single day? Or those who help mentally handicapped people; those who spend their whole lives alleviating the suffering of others? Don't tell me it's all about dopamine and feeling good about themselves, because it is much more than that.)

Also, what about compassion? What leads us to take pity on our enemies, people for whom we feel no love and showing kindness to whom may even hurt us later on, yet people still do it?

"If I am sick, there is no proof whatsoever that man is a healthy creature."

And yet, if I am bothered by the perceived evil of man, doesn't it mean that others are as well? And in turn - doesn't it mean that the evil is less than what we make it out to be?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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