What would you say
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13-12-2014, 10:11 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2014 11:44 AM by DLJ.)
What would you say
Hello, I'm new here!
So to start the journey off, I want to post this picture -

[Image: unborn-atheists.png]
I'm currently 15 and having mixed signals. My parents are religious and always have been bringing me to church. But a few months ago, I found out about TTA and became very interested. Honestly, I've never thought from such a different point of view in my life. It really changed how I see the church now. But I'll leave that out for now.
Long story short, I go to this Sunday school and the teacher is always trying to pull us away from being skeptics, trying to not make us question God. Last week, she posted the picture above to prove a point.
I really wanted to rebut the picture but as a teenager, I'm really bad at it. So I decided to ask in a forums like this. What do you think about the picture? What would you recommend I say in response to it?
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13-12-2014, 11:52 AM
RE: What would you say
(13-12-2014 10:11 AM)FreizuLeben Wrote:  ...
What do you think about the picture? What would you recommend I say in response to it?

I think it's quite witty, actually.

But it's a flawed analogy.

Put it this way ... and leaving aside that the soon-to-be-twins have no concept of 'mom' ... if, after some event, I, as an atheist, am presented with incontrovertible evidence for a god / mother, I would become a theist.

What rite of passage would I have to go through for that? Death?

Is your teacher telling you that death is the after-life where/when you are presented with that evidence?

How does she know?

It's a variation on Pascal's Wager.

Wink

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13-12-2014, 12:02 PM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2014 12:16 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: What would you say
http://www.onegoodmove.org/fallacy/falsean.htm
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps
You could tell her that the Hebrews in the OT did not believe in life after death, (references on request), St. Paul thought only the saved were immortal.
Atheists affirm all sorts of things they have never seen, but for which there is evidence. There is no evidence for any of the gods. (Of course she assumes HER god is the one and only god). Ask her if Yahweh's (the Old Testament god) wife is one she believes in ? http://www.northernway.org/hgoddess.html

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-12-2014, 02:16 PM
RE: What would you say
This post is a bit stream-of-consciousness... you might find something useful.

From the incomplete evidence available to them at time of picture being taken (pretending that it's not a fake for the moment. I dunno, could be real I guess), perfectly rational to conclude that mother is not a reasonable hypothesis, although I guess because babies are able to hear stuff etc in the womb could extrapolate that is external part of universe that they can't see. But entirely crazy to think that gonna get born. Out of all the myriad possibilities when you find yourself in a pink bubble world you think you're gonna get popped out the belly of a being who looks like you???

I guess if you were super smart baby might notice cervix etc and maybe make some tentative hypotheses about what was going on, theory might gain a lot of evidence to back it - maybe even enough to make disbelieving it unreasonable. But that would be scientific theory then, not some gooey wooey faith thing.

Let's say Christian faith was all about how atoms work, and we looked and found that atoms do work that way. Is it then a true faith? Not really. Of course, religion can be right about something. Is trivial. But *way* you arrive at truth is important. Lets say as an Atomic Christian you believe something about atoms, can you be *sure* this is true? Of course, says the Atomic Pope, you just gotta have faith. But problem is, with faith you never check. Scientific atomic theory is built on groundwork of hypotheses and testing, which is why we can be confident it works. With Atomic Christianity, you can't be really sure or even reasonably sure about anything the Atomic Gospel says - it might be true, might agree with scientific atomic theory on a lot of points, but until you test each claim, can't really say for sure if it's true or not.

Hail radioactive Christ.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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