When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
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21-11-2016, 08:55 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
You have to consider why a person holds a belief. A belief, even a misplaced one, can warrant respect, if the believer has access to only inferior evidence.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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21-11-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 08:55 AM)tomilay Wrote:  You have to consider why a person holds a belief. A belief, even a misplaced one, can warrant respect, if the believer has access to only inferior evidence.

Why would I respect that situation?
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21-11-2016, 09:01 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 08:55 AM)tomilay Wrote:  You have to consider why a person holds a belief. A belief, even a misplaced one, can warrant respect, if the believer has access to only inferior evidence.

Good point. We respect Aristotle's beliefs even though they were demonstrably wrong. He was a great thinker.
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21-11-2016, 09:07 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
I have doubts about how rational most beliefs are, including my own. The irrationality of much religious dogma is clear to me, but my own irrationalities are not. Given the way that belief and emotions are entwined--more than we want to admit--I probably would stick to some of my own irrational beliefs, even if presented with good arguments countering them. As long as my assumptions about the world seem helpful, I trust them; I try to adjust them as needed, but I know I have blind spots. I don't think of any belief area as sacred, though: any belief is fair game for critical analysis.

Belief systems aren't really that important to me when I think of another human as deserving respect.
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21-11-2016, 09:44 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 08:57 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 08:55 AM)tomilay Wrote:  You have to consider why a person holds a belief. A belief, even a misplaced one, can warrant respect, if the believer has access to only inferior evidence.

Why would I respect that situation?

I'll use an example.

Think of prior criminal convictions that have been overturned by DNA evidence say the Central Park jogger's case. Absent the development of DNA analysis techniques, and the confession of the actual criminal, the best available evidence, convicts otherwise innocent people.

That outcome, loses respect in my opinion, only when the superior evidence of the confession and DNA emerges.

Aliza's example of Aristotle is also a good one. As would Isaac Newton. To be fair, most people here, will classify those as informed opinions rather than beliefs. I opt not to argue otherwise - rather I use them to expand the discussion from just belief to opinion.

To be fair, I do not respect a belief or opinion that is based on refusal to consider any contrary evidence - ie willful ignorance.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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21-11-2016, 09:47 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 08:55 AM)tomilay Wrote:  You have to consider why a person holds a belief. A belief, even a misplaced one, can warrant respect, if the believer has access to only inferior evidence.

I agree with this only up to a point.

I have no problem with ignorance. Ignorance itself is not something to be disrespected; we are all, even the greatest minds on earth, ignorant of something-- probably of many things.

Where I lose my respect is in the area I refer to as "intellectual honesty" (or "intellectual integrity"), if the person is presented with demonstrably better evidence and chooses to dismiss or ignore it because they prefer their comfortable presuppositions. Where they may continue on to earn my ire or even overt hostility is where they try to impact my life with their ignorance or, as Full Circle so aptly put it, try to "infect" others with that ignorance.

There's just too much at stake, in a science- and technology-driven world, to allow people who are willfully ignorant to spread their mind rot.

Edit to Add: I see Tomilay is a step ahead of me, while I was typing this reply. Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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21-11-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
When they stay away from my money.




Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

Alouette, je te plumerai.
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21-11-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
I don't respect a belief based on faith. For me, it means that I'm annoyed, sometimes angry and saddened to think how people are blinded by faith.
It makes me particularly angry to consider that they indeed spread like an infection (stealing too Full Circle metaphor about it).
Believers become believers because of other believers. If they kept their belief for themselves, I would mind much less, but the permanent proselytism makes me angry, and even angrier when it impacts public affairs and law (like religion at school...seriously ?).

But I usually keep that feeling for myself. I don't respect the belief but I respect the believers, so in a conversation, I won't be the one who brings out the subject, because I want to avoid any conversation that could hurt someone. Now, if some people start talking about it, the way I will react depends on how they bring the subject, if they start being derisive or arogant, that's another story.
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21-11-2016, 11:37 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 08:36 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  What does Patton Oswalt say?

[Image: 481576fedb16bed61062a835d19c6285.jpg]

Fuckin' nailed it. Good job Patton, go get yourself a cookie.
Isn't that the guy who was in the "Let's Go" skit from the comedy group Human Giant? Laugh out load

Start at 14:45.



[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
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21-11-2016, 12:35 PM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 11:37 AM)Vosur Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 08:36 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  What does Patton Oswalt say?

[Image: 481576fedb16bed61062a835d19c6285.jpg]

Fuckin' nailed it. Good job Patton, go get yourself a cookie.
Isn't that the guy who was in the "Let's Go" skit from the comedy group Human Giant? Laugh out load

Start at 14:45.



It is.

And I like the second part of the quote too...

[Image: post-13672-You-ve-gotta-respect-everyone-kauf.png]

(21-11-2016 09:01 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 08:55 AM)tomilay Wrote:  You have to consider why a person holds a belief. A belief, even a misplaced one, can warrant respect, if the believer has access to only inferior evidence.

Good point. We respect Aristotle's beliefs even though they were demonstrably wrong. He was a great thinker.


Nope. Bad point.

We would be respecting the person's ability to be a hoopy frood thinker.

The conclusion they came to with insufficient or faulty data does not have to be respected only their ability to process that data.

It's about integrity.

Data integrity is often defined as pertaining to accuracy and completeness whereas human integrity relates more to honesty.

Therefore the conclusion may lack integrity (regarding data) yet the person (and the process they use) may be held in great esteem i.e. someone with integrity.

/lecture.

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