When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
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21-11-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 01:40 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Of course it is meaningful and you could do someting against a persons right to believe (what he/she wants): You could introduce thought crime, and thus take away their right to believe. That would be disrespect of the right to believe.

Maybe. I'd have to think about it more.

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21-11-2016, 01:46 PM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 06:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  We hear quite a lot, of a demand to "respect others beliefs".

But, do we really???

Who determines, at what criteria that any particular person's beliefs is valid and deserving of respect???
What you take to be facts are actually a subset of beliefs. For you they meet certain criteria, probably backed up by evidence. That makes them (in your mind) justified beliefs.

How people define beliefs as 'justified' varies from person to person and from situation to situation.

For example if you are getting a cookie from the pantry and ask your wife if she wants one too and she responds "not thanks, I've just eaten" well, you most likely believe her even without any evidence because there is really no incentive for this to be lie and it really doesn't impact you whether it is true or not, so you believe.

Do you respect her belief that she has just eaten? Sure, why not, respect her belief, respect her and get along as happy families.

Now lets say your wife screams "Arghhhhhh, there's a mouse, I saw it run under the fridge". Do you believe her? Do you respect her belief in what she saw?

What about if she screams "Arghhhhh, there's a ghost, I saw it go through that wall". You'd probably not believe her, because you presumably don't believe in ghosts. But would you respect her belief? Would you try to tell her she is crazy? Would you try to convince her that ghosts don't exist? Would you ask more questions to fully understand what her full and accurate experience was?
What value would you get from any of these approaches? What would be the outcome?

If you respect a person's beliefs you aren't necessarily believing what they say, but you are respecting them, respecting their experiences and their decision to believe what seems compelling to them. If you don't respect their beliefs then you are not respecting them, you are either mocking them, thinking they are irrational, and/or uneducated.

It's a hard thing to respectfully disagree with someone else's beliefs. Quite a challenge really.
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21-11-2016, 01:57 PM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 01:32 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  He's also known for the Parks & Recreation improvised 'Star Wars Filibuster'.




Well, seeing as he didn't bother to mention Silver Surfer, I really can't get into that whole "other worlds" tie-in thing. Dodgy Sentinel of the Spaceways is only logical in the multiverse so, yea - no.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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21-11-2016, 01:58 PM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 09:44 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 08:57 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  Why would I respect that situation?

I'll use an example.

Think of prior criminal convictions that have been overturned by DNA evidence say the Central Park jogger's case. Absent the development of DNA analysis techniques, and the confession of the actual criminal, the best available evidence, convicts otherwise innocent people.

That outcome, loses respect in my opinion, only when the superior evidence of the confession and DNA emerges.

Aliza's example of Aristotle is also a good one. As would Isaac Newton. To be fair, most people here, will classify those as informed opinions rather than beliefs. I opt not to argue otherwise - rather I use them to expand the discussion from just belief to opinion.

To be fair, I do not respect a belief or opinion that is based on refusal to consider any contrary evidence - ie willful ignorance.

First part, the situation didn't deserve respect, it was flawed. If you respected it before you found out it was flawed then you made a mistake.

Second part. Aristotle demonstrated that he did deserve respect.
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21-11-2016, 02:46 PM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 12:35 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 11:37 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Isn't that the guy who was in the "Let's Go" skit from the comedy group Human Giant? Laugh out load

Start at 14:45.



It is.

And I like the second part of the quote too...

[Image: post-13672-You-ve-gotta-respect-everyone-kauf.png]

(21-11-2016 09:01 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Good point. We respect Aristotle's beliefs even though they were demonstrably wrong. He was a great thinker.


Nope. Bad point.

We would be respecting the person's ability to be a hoopy frood thinker.

The conclusion they came to with insufficient or faulty data does not have to be respected only their ability to process that data.

It's about integrity.

Data integrity is often defined as pertaining to accuracy and completeness whereas human integrity relates more to honesty.

Therefore the conclusion may lack integrity (regarding data) yet the person (and the process they use) may be held in great esteem i.e. someone with integrity.

/lecture.

I would say that Aliza's demonstrably wrong characterization happens only on the back of thousands of years of data. An ex post facto judgment. During his lifetime, a lot of his beliefs were not demonstrably wrong.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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21-11-2016, 02:52 PM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 01:58 PM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(21-11-2016 09:44 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I'll use an example.

Think of prior criminal convictions that have been overturned by DNA evidence say the Central Park jogger's case. Absent the development of DNA analysis techniques, and the confession of the actual criminal, the best available evidence, convicts otherwise innocent people.

That outcome, loses respect in my opinion, only when the superior evidence of the confession and DNA emerges.

Aliza's example of Aristotle is also a good one. As would Isaac Newton. To be fair, most people here, will classify those as informed opinions rather than beliefs. I opt not to argue otherwise - rather I use them to expand the discussion from just belief to opinion.

To be fair, I do not respect a belief or opinion that is based on refusal to consider any contrary evidence - ie willful ignorance.

First part, the situation didn't deserve respect, it was flawed. If you respected it before you found out it was flawed then you made a mistake.

In hindsight, indeed.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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21-11-2016, 08:00 PM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
Beliefs deserve respect so long as the person with the beliefs also deserves respect.
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22-11-2016, 06:20 AM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2016 06:27 AM by Velvet.)
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(21-11-2016 08:00 PM)Celestial_Wonder Wrote:  Beliefs deserve respect so long as the person with the beliefs also deserves respect.

What? Why?

No belief "deserves" any amount of respect, regardless if it is theory of gravity or creationism, this respect only serves to protect from honest and critical eye, needless to say thats not what science wants even for its most supported concepts.

Well supported beliefs don't need respect, they are well supported, you'd better have a good case to present if you want to go against water being H2O, or you will just be disregarded as an idiot.

You just have to respect people.

The respect for guy who holds the belief must have NO impact on the way you percieve that idea, otherwise you are being biased.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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22-11-2016, 06:24 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(22-11-2016 06:20 AM)Velvet Wrote:  You just have to respect people.
No you don't. You don't have to respect idiots, lamers, cretins and people who demand that you "think right!"
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22-11-2016, 06:29 AM
RE: When Do Beliefs Deserve Respect?
(22-11-2016 06:24 AM)Gawdzilla Wrote:  
(22-11-2016 06:20 AM)Velvet Wrote:  You just have to respect people.
No you don't. You don't have to respect idiots, lamers, cretins and people who demand that you "think right!"

Fair enough, that's a whole other topic which would be interesting to discuss as well.

But let's first establish that we should never "respect a belief" regardless of anything, because it will only cloud judgment and shield against honest inquiry, supported theories don't need that anyways.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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