When I lost my faith
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05-09-2012, 02:22 PM
When I lost my faith
Just read Alice's thread about how she is grieving the loss of her faith and how people can relate with that so well.
Wall of text coming

While reading this I thought, "no, I never griefed the loss of my faith" and I didn't. Now I don't know that anymore, all I know is, I went through some weird emotions as well. Mostly I was just scared and upset that nothing has been true.
I am still upset about it, and it's been 3 years now.

All the time I never believed in gods although most people in these circles do. I did not believe in them as physical beings, as they are painted in the mythology I followed. I did though believe in something god-like made of energies. And I did follow rituals and celebrations accordingly to the north germanic mythology and the old "pagan" ways. (Although I had to find out that "pagan" it self is not a religion really but simply coming from christianity calling everyone a pagan who is not following them, that was in the middle ages, at the time when satanism was invented. At least something along these lines.)
I believed in so many things and to be honest, a lot of the things weren't too bad.
People like to paint the good side of leaving religion and faith. But there is definitely a bad side to it. You simply lose the base of your live.

I always believed in reincarnation. I had perfect explanations on how it works and why it is logical that reincarnation is a fact and true. I thought I had worked out memories of past lives. My mother and I talked that we felt we have known each other for much longer than this life. Even after I had dropped most of my believes, this was one of my two last grips on it. I met my husband during the phase where we both were losing our faiths. And I told him about reincarnation and why it is logical and true. And he started asking me critical questions. I got so annoyed and mad because he was RIGHT with the conclusions. It was like... omg and what am I doing now???? What are those "memories"?, what is happening after death? I went back into my 9 year old me when I asked my mother about death and being dead and she told me it is like sleeping forever. And I was so scared, I did not want to sleep and feel nothing and hear or see nothing, just not be anymore. How freaking scary is it when you see it like that!! You all should know this feeling.
So at some point I just decided that it makes no sense to worry about that all the time because it will happen sooner or later and I can't stop that.
Only recently did I get accross that thing... dunno who said it. About not worrying about death, what did that person say? "I was dead for millions of years before I was born" And this got me to not being scared shitless anymore.

Another thing was fate. A bit like gods big plan but a bit more complex. I thought that my live is completely layed out based on two components. My previous life and the circumstances I am born in (action and reaction?). When I do, think, talk bad during my live, my next live will be bad, if I live my live as well as I can, I will get to live the next live with the next set of experiences instead of going through the same again. When I am born it is like you kick a ball and it starts rolling, all the things at my birth lay out every detail of my live. Why I feel the way I do, what I experience, whether I'll be rich or poor, find a partner, die early... etc.
So I knew that I can not change anything really, but if I am not trying to do my best I will have to go through this live again (scary!).
And once I lost this fate-faith I felt helpless and scared. What will the future bring, why do things happen, why do *bad* things happen to me when I am always trying to be good? etc etc... I just had to accept that live isn't fair and can suck real bad at times, and I had to learn that worrying about that and crying around won't help me. So for the moment there was no "purpose" anymore and I was ready to actually go ahead and commit suicide.

So in these two point I basically lost the biggest and most important two poles of my life and purpose. And there had to be a purpose of all this happening, and what is the purpose now? All the small and big things in life used to have one.
By now I know that not everything needs to have a purpose or meaning. Me starting to sing randomly sometimes has no friggin purpose, I just do it. My live has no greater meaning, I just happened to be born.
I can't say I am happy about it because most things we do in live do have a purpose or mean something. Like when I was a child and my grandmother sent me to the cellar to get us water I was always whistleing or whispering or singing because I felt so uncomfortable down there and that gave me safety. So me making sounds had a purpose.
The traffic lights have a purpose and the colors there meaning. Me sitting down on the sofa instead of at the kitchen table means I want it more comfortable right now. And so on and so forth.

I know I am kinda rambling here but I just want to get it out. And I want want want that people understand that there are religions apart from monotheistic ones, that hurt like crap when you lose them!

Me losing mine created a void just as big as anyone else's, and I had and still have so many questions about it, and I want to hear or read people talking about coming out of the same faith I left. I have been in this forum for dunno, almost a year, and in all this time there was literally noone who was able to really understand what I am talking, to comfort me in this. Not sure if it is actually real, but I feel like I am very alone in this. I have not heard of ANYONE coming out of the same thing. Most people hear are ex-christians or ex-muslims and can't really relate. Last time I posted a thread in atheism and theism I felt so frustrated that I lost every will to keep talking about it, because I got so much rudeness while I just wanted to share information in order to actually talk about this properly. I don't feel that I accomplished that, even after 5 threads of the kind (Leela's spirituality).
As I stated numerous times in various places on this forum, I love the people here, and I love how they think critically and ask questions etc, but on this one, I feel so left alone because there is noone who can actually discuss these matters on a satisfactory level because common knowledge about witches and spirituality and esotheric is so full of cliche.

Like... I lost my base of life, just like so many here, and I have to work so hard to find my anwers all alone, because all atheist-stuff I can find here or generally on the internet is about mono-theistic world views, mostly christianity and related. I am so totally out of that range that I jut don't fit, and the answers given to other people don't fit for me either.

There I sit with a ton of questions and noone who can answer them because they are either still believers or have never been there.

Thanks for the attention.

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05-09-2012, 02:46 PM
RE: When I lost my faith
I can totally see the relationship between your beliefs and any other. Its just different names but the same concepts. God- is like the spiritual being, reincarnation - is the aferlife and to get a good reincarnation /afterlife certain actions and behaviors have to be obtained or practiced. I don't know a lot about the specifics of what you believed but the fears and loneliness sounds the same. I think its mainly about counting on someone or something then one day it's just gone, especially when there is a belief in any kind of afterlife, i think its a hard pill to swallow. When i started losing my faith in my beliefs i thought maybe i could find a different belief that was true like an eastern religion with reincarnation that sounded like something for me that would be easier to believe, but im sure only because i didn't want to have nothing. I don't think your experience is any less eventful, emotional, or traumatic then anyone elses, because religions to me now all seem the same. All systematic beliefs of getting somewhere else when this life is over and how u get a good one and who promises it to u are the only differences. Your loss is as great as mine.

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05-09-2012, 02:56 PM
RE: When I lost my faith
And ya know now that i think about it i really didn't know my own "religion ". I've never even read the Bible, i just believed what i was told to believe. Really i can only honestly say besides verses looked up randomly in a pew I don't know what doctrine i would have been, although my parents said mostly Baptist. So my perceptions and beliefs just came from childhood stories and things i was told then repeated. But you still count on them, you still lean on them, and they are still used as a coping mechanism for all kinds of emotions we don't want to deal with.

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05-09-2012, 03:04 PM
RE: When I lost my faith
I have often described religion as a form of programming. I still find myself doing things that I did when I was religious. I still have a need to pray before we eat, I still feel as though I have to answer to some supreme being if I do something wrong, etc. It doesn't go away overnight. I have been an atheist for three years, and it's still with me.

(05-09-2012 02:56 PM)Alice Wrote:  I've never even read the Bible, i just believed what i was told to believe.

It's a must read. The Bible was the last nail in the coffin for me. Their own book convinced me of their evils. Read it. I did, and I realized more than I ever did about my religion.

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05-09-2012, 06:42 PM
RE: When I lost my faith
(05-09-2012 02:22 PM)Leela Wrote:  Just read Alice's thread about how she is grieving the loss of her faith and how people can relate with that so well.
Wall of text coming

While reading this I thought, "no, I never griefed the loss of my faith" and I didn't. Now I don't know that anymore, all I know is, I went through some weird emotions as well. Mostly I was just scared and upset that nothing has been true.
I am still upset about it, and it's been 3 years now.

All the time I never believed in gods although most people in these circles do. I did not believe in them as physical beings, as they are painted in the mythology I followed. I did though believe in something god-like made of energies. And I did follow rituals and celebrations accordingly to the north germanic mythology and the old "pagan" ways. (Although I had to find out that "pagan" it self is not a religion really but simply coming from christianity calling everyone a pagan who is not following them, that was in the middle ages, at the time when satanism was invented. At least something along these lines.)
I believed in so many things and to be honest, a lot of the things weren't too bad.
People like to paint the good side of leaving religion and faith. But there is definitely a bad side to it. You simply lose the base of your live.

I always believed in reincarnation. I had perfect explanations on how it works and why it is logical that reincarnation is a fact and true. I thought I had worked out memories of past lives. My mother and I talked that we felt we have known each other for much longer than this life. Even after I had dropped most of my believes, this was one of my two last grips on it. I met my husband during the phase where we both were losing our faiths. And I told him about reincarnation and why it is logical and true. And he started asking me critical questions. I got so annoyed and mad because he was RIGHT with the conclusions. It was like... omg and what am I doing now???? What are those "memories"?, what is happening after death? I went back into my 9 year old me when I asked my mother about death and being dead and she told me it is like sleeping forever. And I was so scared, I did not want to sleep and feel nothing and hear or see nothing, just not be anymore. How freaking scary is it when you see it like that!! You all should know this feeling.
So at some point I just decided that it makes no sense to worry about that all the time because it will happen sooner or later and I can't stop that.
Only recently did I get accross that thing... dunno who said it. About not worrying about death, what did that person say? "I was dead for millions of years before I was born" And this got me to not being scared shitless anymore.

Another thing was fate. A bit like gods big plan but a bit more complex. I thought that my live is completely layed out based on two components. My previous life and the circumstances I am born in (action and reaction?). When I do, think, talk bad during my live, my next live will be bad, if I live my live as well as I can, I will get to live the next live with the next set of experiences instead of going through the same again. When I am born it is like you kick a ball and it starts rolling, all the things at my birth lay out every detail of my live. Why I feel the way I do, what I experience, whether I'll be rich or poor, find a partner, die early... etc.
So I knew that I can not change anything really, but if I am not trying to do my best I will have to go through this live again (scary!).
And once I lost this fate-faith I felt helpless and scared. What will the future bring, why do things happen, why do *bad* things happen to me when I am always trying to be good? etc etc... I just had to accept that live isn't fair and can suck real bad at times, and I had to learn that worrying about that and crying around won't help me. So for the moment there was no "purpose" anymore and I was ready to actually go ahead and commit suicide.

So in these two point I basically lost the biggest and most important two poles of my life and purpose. And there had to be a purpose of all this happening, and what is the purpose now? All the small and big things in life used to have one.
By now I know that not everything needs to have a purpose or meaning. Me starting to sing randomly sometimes has no friggin purpose, I just do it. My live has no greater meaning, I just happened to be born.
I can't say I am happy about it because most things we do in live do have a purpose or mean something. Like when I was a child and my grandmother sent me to the cellar to get us water I was always whistleing or whispering or singing because I felt so uncomfortable down there and that gave me safety. So me making sounds had a purpose.
The traffic lights have a purpose and the colors there meaning. Me sitting down on the sofa instead of at the kitchen table means I want it more comfortable right now. And so on and so forth.

I know I am kinda rambling here but I just want to get it out. And I want want want that people understand that there are religions apart from monotheistic ones, that hurt like crap when you lose them!

Me losing mine created a void just as big as anyone else's, and I had and still have so many questions about it, and I want to hear or read people talking about coming out of the same faith I left. I have been in this forum for dunno, almost a year, and in all this time there was literally noone who was able to really understand what I am talking, to comfort me in this. Not sure if it is actually real, but I feel like I am very alone in this. I have not heard of ANYONE coming out of the same thing. Most people hear are ex-christians or ex-muslims and can't really relate. Last time I posted a thread in atheism and theism I felt so frustrated that I lost every will to keep talking about it, because I got so much rudeness while I just wanted to share information in order to actually talk about this properly. I don't feel that I accomplished that, even after 5 threads of the kind (Leela's spirituality).
As I stated numerous times in various places on this forum, I love the people here, and I love how they think critically and ask questions etc, but on this one, I feel so left alone because there is noone who can actually discuss these matters on a satisfactory level because common knowledge about witches and spirituality and esotheric is so full of cliche.

Like... I lost my base of life, just like so many here, and I have to work so hard to find my anwers all alone, because all atheist-stuff I can find here or generally on the internet is about mono-theistic world views, mostly christianity and related. I am so totally out of that range that I jut don't fit, and the answers given to other people don't fit for me either.

There I sit with a ton of questions and noone who can answer them because they are either still believers or have never been there.

Thanks for the attention.
Leela,
What are your questions? I think we understand your emotions, could you share the beliefs that were particular to your religion/belief system. I for one would love to hear about it. You fit.

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06-09-2012, 11:10 AM
RE: When I lost my faith
One thing.
If you look at how nature works, how nothing is being wasted. Why would nature waste a ready done personality that succeeded in live, and not kinda recycle it into reincarnation? Not sure how to explain this. Like... I used to be this big energy-person... energies travel and so on. that kind. And I know from physics that energies do not get wasted. Something is always happening with them. Now if all these memories and the experience I collect are in my brain and due to electric impulses they are being brought back for me to remember. This thing I could probably call it energy. Right, it is there, I think about it in that moment. So all of this, why would nature just let go of it, when it is so important for the human race to evolve? Why is it so unbelievable and impossible that this material goes to another, new human being, which can work with it if it wants to?

For me it seems like a huge waste of nature to just let go of it. Sure I will die, and logically thinking I understand that in that moment, my electrical impules stop, and soon I start decomposting, and will be food for bugs and worms in no time. Which is fine for me, at least I am useful for something after my death. I am fine with it, honestly. I just find it such a shame that reincarnation isn't even considered a possibility by people who don't believe.
I have seen shows on TV where people had done these meditative timetravel things, you know when you are supposed to go back to an earlier live. And they said things and names, years, places, etc. They claim they have never known of these names and places and so on and a lot of these things turned out true. I understand that it is TV and made for the "wow effect" but still.

And the realisation that reincarnation is not true makes me wanna write down my whole life and everything I know, just so someone in the future might profit from it in some way, even if it is only not making the same mistakes in live that I made.

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06-09-2012, 11:16 AM
RE: When I lost my faith
(06-09-2012 11:10 AM)Leela Wrote:  One thing.
If you look at how nature works, how nothing is being wasted. Why would nature waste a ready done personality that succeeded in live, and not kinda recycle it into reincarnation? Not sure how to explain this. Like... I used to be this big energy-person... energies travel and so on. that kind. And I know from physics that energies do not get wasted. Something is always happening with them. Now if all these memories and the experience I collect are in my brain and due to electric impulses they are being brought back for me to remember. This thing I could probably call it energy. Right, it is there, I think about it in that moment. So all of this, why would nature just let go of it, when it is so important for the human race to evolve? Why is it so unbelievable and impossible that this material goes to another, new human being, which can work with it if it wants to?

For me it seems like a huge waste of nature to just let go of it. Sure I will die, and logically thinking I understand that in that moment, my electrical impules stop, and soon I start decomposting, and will be food for bugs and worms in no time. Which is fine for me, at least I am useful for something after my death. I am fine with it, honestly. I just find it such a shame that reincarnation isn't even considered a possibility by people who don't believe.
I have seen shows on TV where people had done these meditative timetravel things, you know when you are supposed to go back to an earlier live. And they said things and names, years, places, etc. They claim they have never known of these names and places and so on and a lot of these things turned out true. I understand that it is TV and made for the "wow effect" but still.

And the realisation that reincarnation is not true makes me wanna write down my whole life and everything I know, just so someone in the future might profit from it in some way, even if it is only not making the same mistakes in live that I made.

Your premise that nothing is wasted is, unfortunately, incorrect. Energy is constantly degraded into heat, destroying order and information. This is entropy.

We age and die, our bodies can wear out, our brains can wear out. It all becomes less and less orderly.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-09-2012, 11:27 AM
RE: When I lost my faith
(06-09-2012 11:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(06-09-2012 11:10 AM)Leela Wrote:  One thing.
If you look at how nature works, how nothing is being wasted. Why would nature waste a ready done personality that succeeded in live, and not kinda recycle it into reincarnation? Not sure how to explain this. Like... I used to be this big energy-person... energies travel and so on. that kind. And I know from physics that energies do not get wasted. Something is always happening with them. Now if all these memories and the experience I collect are in my brain and due to electric impulses they are being brought back for me to remember. This thing I could probably call it energy. Right, it is there, I think about it in that moment. So all of this, why would nature just let go of it, when it is so important for the human race to evolve? Why is it so unbelievable and impossible that this material goes to another, new human being, which can work with it if it wants to?

For me it seems like a huge waste of nature to just let go of it. Sure I will die, and logically thinking I understand that in that moment, my electrical impules stop, and soon I start decomposting, and will be food for bugs and worms in no time. Which is fine for me, at least I am useful for something after my death. I am fine with it, honestly. I just find it such a shame that reincarnation isn't even considered a possibility by people who don't believe.
I have seen shows on TV where people had done these meditative timetravel things, you know when you are supposed to go back to an earlier live. And they said things and names, years, places, etc. They claim they have never known of these names and places and so on and a lot of these things turned out true. I understand that it is TV and made for the "wow effect" but still.

And the realisation that reincarnation is not true makes me wanna write down my whole life and everything I know, just so someone in the future might profit from it in some way, even if it is only not making the same mistakes in live that I made.

Your premise that nothing is wasted is, unfortunately, incorrect. Energy is constantly degraded into heat, destroying order and information. This is entropy.

We age and die, our bodies can wear out, our brains can wear out. It all becomes less and less orderly.

So is it better to live in say, Norway or Alaska so our brains stay cold or better to move to Singapore where less heat gets lost from the brain cos the outside temperature is the same.

Is this why desert wanderers (pick your favourite biblical tribe) were such hot-heads?

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06-09-2012, 12:52 PM
RE: When I lost my faith
(06-09-2012 11:27 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(06-09-2012 11:16 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your premise that nothing is wasted is, unfortunately, incorrect. Energy is constantly degraded into heat, destroying order and information. This is entropy.

We age and die, our bodies can wear out, our brains can wear out. It all becomes less and less orderly.

So is it better to live in say, Norway or Alaska so our brains stay cold or better to move to Singapore where less heat gets lost from the brain cos the outside temperature is the same.

Is this why desert wanderers (pick your favourite biblical tribe) were such hot-heads?

Yes. And it explains the slow deterioration in the quality of your posts. Consider

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06-09-2012, 01:00 PM
RE: When I lost my faith
no chas, it is not getting wasted, stuff changes form but it is not gone just because fire burns. fire is a product, just like light is one, heat is one... it is not gone. when i heat up the room and then open the window, the heat is not gone at all, it just spread so much that noone will feel it outside. When I die one day and I rot away. I am not really gone, I changed my form into dirt / if I get burnt after death (more likely) I am not gone either, I am ash. When the ashe decomposts (spelling?) it is not gone, again it changed form. Maybe a worm ate from the ash, now the worms digestive system will make use of it, and the worm can live one more day.
That is what I meant with nothing gets wasted. Just that I took it one step further.

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