When Will Science End?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
23-12-2014, 12:13 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(21-12-2014 08:19 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  I AM USING REASON.

If you were using reason, this thread wouldn't exist. Asking if science will end is like asking if gravity will ever stop working. Even if we discover everything science will still exist because it governs our universe. It explains almost everything from why you can see whats on your computer screen to how a burrito is cooked. You don't see us throwing away our dictionaries because we know what every English word means, so even if we learn about everything why would we get rid of the thing that explains it all?

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes JDog554's post
23-12-2014, 12:52 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(23-12-2014 12:13 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  If you were using reason, this thread wouldn't exist. Asking if science will end is like asking if gravity will ever stop working. Even if we discover everything science will still exist because it governs our universe. It explains almost everything from why you can see whats on your computer screen to how a burrito is cooked. You don't see us throwing away our dictionaries because we know what every English word means, so even if we learn about everything why would we get rid of the thing that explains it all?

Oops, you've missed the point of the thread entirely. I accept partial blame for that.

The point was, if science will continue for a very long time at ever accelerating rates, it follows we currently know pretty much nothing, in comparison to what there is to know.

This is relevant on an atheist forum because the God proposal members wish to debunk is about the ultimate nature of everything. If we don't currently know shit, then nobody is in a position to make sweeping assertions about the ultimate nature of everything, theists AND atheists included.

If you think god does not exist, that is a sweeping assertion about the ultimate nature of everything. I propose there is no evidence you, or anybody else, is in a position to credibly make assertions of that HUGE scale. Maybe some day, many many days from now. Not today.

CONCLUSION: Both theists and atheists are talking out of their butts and making up a bunch of shit they couldn't possibly know.

Thus, the supposed big difference between the two camps is mostly just an illusion clung to by those who need there to be a difference so they can claim a fantasy superiority.

If there's anybody I didn't offend with this, please let me know, and I'll try to rectify the situation. :-)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-12-2014, 12:54 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(23-12-2014 12:52 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 12:13 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  If you were using reason, this thread wouldn't exist. Asking if science will end is like asking if gravity will ever stop working. Even if we discover everything science will still exist because it governs our universe. It explains almost everything from why you can see whats on your computer screen to how a burrito is cooked. You don't see us throwing away our dictionaries because we know what every English word means, so even if we learn about everything why would we get rid of the thing that explains it all?

Oops, you've missed the point of the thread entirely. I accept partial blame for that.

The point was, if science will continue for a very long time at ever accelerating rates, it follows we currently know pretty much nothing, in comparison to what there is to know.

This is relevant on an atheist forum because the God proposal members wish to debunk is about the ultimate nature of everything. If we don't currently know shit, then nobody is in a position to make sweeping assertions about the ultimate nature of everything, theists AND atheists included.

If you think god does not exist, that is a sweeping assertion about the ultimate nature of everything. I propose there is no evidence you, or anybody else, is in a position to credibly make assertions of that HUGE scale. Maybe some day, many many days from now. Not today.

CONCLUSION: Both theists and atheists are talking out of their butts and making up a bunch of shit they couldn't possibly know.

Thus, the supposed big difference between the two camps is mostly just an illusion clung to by those who need there to be a difference so they can claim a fantasy superiority.

If there's anybody I didn't offend with this, please let me know, and I'll try to rectify the situation. :-)

Ah, so you finally come out with your big old conclusion. Well done chap. Consider us well and truly told. Run along now Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-12-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(23-12-2014 12:52 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(23-12-2014 12:13 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  If you were using reason, this thread wouldn't exist. Asking if science will end is like asking if gravity will ever stop working. Even if we discover everything science will still exist because it governs our universe. It explains almost everything from why you can see whats on your computer screen to how a burrito is cooked. You don't see us throwing away our dictionaries because we know what every English word means, so even if we learn about everything why would we get rid of the thing that explains it all?

Oops, you've missed the point of the thread entirely. I accept partial blame for that.

The point was, if science will continue for a very long time at ever accelerating rates, it follows we currently know pretty much nothing, in comparison to what there is to know.

This is relevant on an atheist forum because the God proposal members wish to debunk is about the ultimate nature of everything. If we don't currently know shit, then nobody is in a position to make sweeping assertions about the ultimate nature of everything, theists AND atheists included.

If you think god does not exist, that is a sweeping assertion about the ultimate nature of everything. I propose there is no evidence you, or anybody else, is in a position to credibly make assertions of that HUGE scale. Maybe some day, many many days from now. Not today.

CONCLUSION: Both theists and atheists are talking out of their butts and making up a bunch of shit they couldn't possibly know.

Thus, the supposed big difference between the two camps is mostly just an illusion clung to by those who need there to be a difference so they can claim a fantasy superiority.

If there's anybody I didn't offend with this, please let me know, and I'll try to rectify the situation. :-)

We know enough to make assertions that a God doesn't exist because of what we do know. Compared to everything we can learn about, yes, we don't know much but compared to what we knew back when the Bible was created, we know a hell of a lot more and we can use this new knowledge to be convinced that a God does not exist. By your logic Poseidon should still be considered the ruler of the sea but we know that Poseidon doesn't exist and hurricanes are not caused by an angry sea God. Why? because advances in science allow us to explain how hurricanes form and how they work. We don't need to know the ultimate nature of everything to know the history of religion and Gods and to have evidence that can prove our claims that a God does not exist. You also assume that even though there is much to learn we don't know much which you would be very wrong. If you had a very big pizza and you ate a big piece of the pizza, compared to the pizza the piece is small but just the piece itself not compared to the pizza is big. Our knowledge is the same thing, compared to what we can learn, what we know now is not a lot, but if we take what all we can learn out of the equation and just look at what we know, we know so much, we are very intelligent and we have learned a lot since we have in our existence.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-12-2014, 08:27 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
Quote:We know enough to make assertions that a God doesn't exist because of what we do know.

Ok, then please tell us how you can know what doesn't exist in an arena, all of reality, that none of us can yet define.

Quote:Why? because advances in science allow us to explain how hurricanes form and how they work.

True. But that tells us nothing about whether there is some form of intelligence at the heart of reality.

Quote:We don't need to know the ultimate nature of everything to know the history of religion and Gods and to have evidence that can prove our claims that a God does not exist.

You are in the same position as the theists. You are making HUGE claims about something you couldn't possibly know. There's no difference between "God exists" and "God does not exist", they're both wildly speculative assertions based on nothing but emotion.

As example, please define the area in which you say no god exists. You're saying no gods exist anywhere, right? That means you are claiming knowledge of everything everywhere. You are claiming the ability to examine the area "anywhere" and determine what doesn't exist there.

Except none of us have a clue what the word "anywhere" actually refers to. One universe? Twenty five trillion universes?

Quote:Our knowledge is the same thing, compared to what we can learn, what we know now is not a lot, but if we take what all we can learn out of the equation and just look at what we know, we know so much, we are very intelligent and we have learned a lot since we have in our existence.

When you say we know a lot, you are comparing us to our former selves, and to other life forms. You're right, but that is not the valid comparison. The valid comparison is to what we'd need to know about the fundamental nature of all reality in order to conclude there is or isn't a god.

All you need to do to see this is apply the very same critical eye at your own views that you reasonably aim at theism. If you can't or won't do that, you're essentially little different than the theists.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-12-2014, 08:42 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(21-12-2014 08:19 AM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  What typically happens on atheist forums is that many (not all) posters seem pretty darn sure there is no god, until they are effectively challenged, and then they retreat in to various kinds of fall back positions.

I'm curious if you have any evidence or examples of actual forums that this occurs within? On what basis is your claim of other people? Is it reasonable for anyone to accept what you take as the situation at hand?

Because I have several examples I'm aware of on this exact board where that isn't the case. Through post threads and multiple different poll threads over time asking the question of what atheistic position people take. The majority was always showing up as weak atheist/agnostic athiest/ simply dont believe in god choices in these threads.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-12-2014, 09:09 PM (This post was last modified: 24-12-2014 05:14 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: When Will Science End?
(23-12-2014 12:52 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  If we don't currently know shit, then nobody is in a position to make sweeping assertions about the ultimate nature of everything, theists AND atheists included.

Completely wrong.

We know some things.

We know that 99.99999999 % of all the gods that have ever been proposed by theists are dismissed now, even by them.

We know that as we learn more, it relegates the gods to a smaller and smaller place.

The idea that atheism and theism are equally ridiculous, is totally ignorant.

Nice try though. Come back when you have something.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Bucky Ball's post
24-12-2014, 04:39 AM
RE: When Will Science End?
(23-12-2014 08:27 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
Quote:We know enough to make assertions that a God doesn't exist because of what we do know.

Ok, then please tell us how you can know what doesn't exist in an arena, all of reality, that none of us can yet define.

Quote:Why? because advances in science allow us to explain how hurricanes form and how they work.

True. But that tells us nothing about whether there is some form of intelligence at the heart of reality.

Quote:We don't need to know the ultimate nature of everything to know the history of religion and Gods and to have evidence that can prove our claims that a God does not exist.

You are in the same position as the theists. You are making HUGE claims about something you couldn't possibly know. There's no difference between "God exists" and "God does not exist", they're both wildly speculative assertions based on nothing but emotion.

As example, please define the area in which you say no god exists. You're saying no gods exist anywhere, right? That means you are claiming knowledge of everything everywhere. You are claiming the ability to examine the area "anywhere" and determine what doesn't exist there.

Except none of us have a clue what the word "anywhere" actually refers to. One universe? Twenty five trillion universes?

Quote:Our knowledge is the same thing, compared to what we can learn, what we know now is not a lot, but if we take what all we can learn out of the equation and just look at what we know, we know so much, we are very intelligent and we have learned a lot since we have in our existence.

When you say we know a lot, you are comparing us to our former selves, and to other life forms. You're right, but that is not the valid comparison. The valid comparison is to what we'd need to know about the fundamental nature of all reality in order to conclude there is or isn't a god.

All you need to do to see this is apply the very same critical eye at your own views that you reasonably aim at theism. If you can't or won't do that, you're essentially little different than the theists.

I cannot comprehend the amount of stupid in your post. There is no 100% absolute certainty but with present evidence, there's a good amount of certainty that a God does not exist. We don't need to know about all of reality to know gravity exists, we can see that it does by dropping an apple. We don't need to know all of reality to know flying rainbow unicorns don't exists because we know unicorns don't exist because there has never been one in documented history and animals that big cannot possibly have wings big enough to make it fly due to the laws of physics we already know about. We don't claim to know 100% that God doesn't exist, we make that assertion based on evidence we collect through history and science which at the moment points to no God existing. We can look at past Gods that were ruled out and compare them and look at the history of the religion and see that it's made up and compare the claims of the religion of their God to what we understand in science and come to the conclusion based on all that evidence that its most likely a God does not exist. I don't understand whats so hard to understand about this. Why can't the evidence we have now be good enough to make a claim that God does not exist. Going back to my earlier comparison, It's possible a Unicorn could exist but we don't need to know about all of reality to safely assume they do not exist because currently evidence supports their non existence.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
24-12-2014, 07:22 AM
RE: When Will Science End?
(23-12-2014 08:42 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm curious if you have any evidence or examples of actual forums that this occurs within? On what basis is your claim of other people? Is it reasonable for anyone to accept what you take as the situation at hand?

Because I have several examples I'm aware of on this exact board where that isn't the case. Through post threads and multiple different poll threads over time asking the question of what atheistic position people take. The majority was always showing up as weak atheist/agnostic athiest/ simply dont believe in god choices in these threads.

Shhhh.... you'll wake up the strawmen he's been arguing against all along.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: