When Will Science End?
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16-12-2014, 02:43 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 02:13 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  If we wind up using the fruits of science to exterminate our species, will science still have been a good idea?

Yes. Discovering fire was a good idea. Burning people at the stake was not. There's a world of difference between theory and implementation.

(16-12-2014 02:13 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Given how many people on forums are sure they know the answer, it can be guessed that the idea that we don't know a whole helluva lot might be surprising to them. :-)

Why is it that this is the inevitable comment of somebody who is sure they know The Answer?

(16-12-2014 02:13 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Yes, but our relationship with science has become a "religious-like" issue. That is, a competing belief system also built upon very little.

This should be brief.

(16-12-2014 02:13 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  nobody has the slightest clue whether we are better off alive or dead.

I have a five year old niece who can answer this one for you.

(16-12-2014 02:13 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Trillions of science dollars, all based on nothing but a particular brand of faith.

Ah. Faith.

(16-12-2014 02:13 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Medicine sounds like it's all about reason and science etc but to a very great degree all the technology and science etc serve just another faith based belief system.

I think that somebody in this conversation is having some difficulty distinguishing between evidence and faith. Here's a quick litmus test. Show me a faith-based space launch.

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16-12-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 02:43 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Show me a faith-based space launch.

Show me the compelling evidence that we're better off alive than dead please.

My point is not that medical science is itself a religion, that would be stretching the word religion too far.

But the part of medical science that is about saving lives is built upon a faith based foundation, the completely unproven notion that we're better off alive than dead.

And in spite of any compelling evidence to prove such a huge assertion, medical science spends trillions of dollars trying to save lives without blinking an eye.

To me, this illustrates the compelling power of faith based beliefs. Even those medical scientists who completely reject all religion are deeply involved in the faith based belief business.

And most of them probably don't even realize it, given that their faith in the "better off alive than dead" belief is so complete that it is taken as an obvious given.

See?

Faith isn't just about religious people.
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16-12-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 02:43 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 02:34 PM)Free Wrote:  Science will end when humankind ends, just like everything else will end.

Ok, thanks. So if we don't kill ourselves first, or get hit by an asteroid etc, are you saying knowledge is essentially infinite? You know, so long as we're here, there will always be new things to learn?

Yes.

I am a proponent for an infinite universe, thereby, an infinite amount of knowledge is available.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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16-12-2014, 03:12 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 03:05 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 02:43 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Show me a faith-based space launch.

Show me the compelling evidence that we're better off alive than dead please.

My point is not that medical science is itself a religion, that would be stretching the word religion too far.

But the part of medical science that is about saving lives is built upon a faith based foundation, the completely unproven notion that we're better off alive than dead.

And in spite of any compelling evidence to prove such a huge assertion, medical science spends trillions of dollars trying to save lives without blinking an eye.

To me, this illustrates the compelling power of faith based beliefs. Even those medical scientists who completely reject all religion are deeply involved in the faith based belief business.

And most of them probably don't even realize it, given that their faith in the "better off alive than dead" belief is so complete that it is taken as an obvious given.

See?

Faith isn't just about religious people.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Anyway trying to wedge the word faith into every nook and crany incorrectly might be a matter of a limited understanding or vocabulary.

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16-12-2014, 03:24 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 03:05 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Show me the compelling evidence that we're better off alive than dead please.

More than 99% of humans are afraid of death and try to, you know, avoid it.

There's no evidence whatsoever that being dead is good (while there's plenty of evidence that being alive is), therefore being alive is the only thing we can be sure we have and we cherish it.

Do you have any evidence that would make us all stop worrying about death?

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16-12-2014, 03:31 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 03:10 PM)Free Wrote:  I am a proponent for an infinite universe, thereby, an infinite amount of knowledge is available.

Ok, so if knowledge development will continue for a very long time or forever, probably at ever accelerating rates....

Would it be fair we currently know pretty much nothing compared to what we will someday know?

You know, when cave men discovered fire that was a really big accomplishment. But they were still just half naked cave men grunting at each other, right?
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16-12-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
Quote:More than 99% of humans are afraid of death and try to, you know, avoid it.

Yes, agreed.

Quote:There's no evidence whatsoever that being dead is good....

No proof for sure, I'd be a little more cautious about your no evidence claim.

Quote:therefore being alive is the only thing we can be sure we have and we cherish it.

I'm not arguing against cherishing life of course. I'm just trying to show how even science is no stranger to faith.

Quote:Do you have any evidence that would make us all stop worrying about death?

Certainly no evidence that meets that test. I have some reasoning which might cause some to pause to consider, but I wouldn't call it evidence.

My point is not that I know, but that trillions of dollars are being spent on a faith based assumption no one can begin to prove, and we call it medical science. The techniques are science, but the assumption they serve are faith, religion by another name.

I'm attempting to tear down this neat and tidy little wall we've tried to build between reason and faith.
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16-12-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 03:38 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
Quote:More than 99% of humans are afraid of death and try to, you know, avoid it.

Yes, agreed.

Quote:There's no evidence whatsoever that being dead is good....

No proof for sure, I'd be a little more cautious about your no evidence claim.

Quote:therefore being alive is the only thing we can be sure we have and we cherish it.

I'm not arguing against cherishing life of course. I'm just trying to show how even science is no stranger to faith.

Quote:Do you have any evidence that would make us all stop worrying about death?

Certainly no evidence that meets that test. I have some reasoning which might cause some to pause to consider, but I wouldn't call it evidence.

My point is not that I know, but that trillions of dollars are being spent on a faith based assumption no one can begin to prove, and we call it medical science. The techniques are science, but the assumption they serve are faith, religion by another name.

I'm attempting to tear down this neat and tidy little wall we've tried to build between reason and faith.

Medical science is a faith-based assumption because we don't know whether life is better than death or not?

Well, then, I assume you never visit the doctor, do you? Since it's all faith-based and not based on actual evidence.

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16-12-2014, 03:46 PM
RE: When Will Science End?



Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-12-2014, 04:09 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 03:43 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  Medical science is a faith-based assumption because we don't know whether life is better than death or not?

What I said was, the part of medical science which concerns itself with saving lives (trillions of dollars) is based on a completely unproven faith based belief.

And millions of medical scientists accept this faith based belief in an unexamined manner, as obvious given.

Trillions of dollars being spent by millions of scientists, in pursuit of a goal no one really has a clue about.

This may demonstrate that science and religion are not quite as different as we often feel.
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