When Will Science End?
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16-12-2014, 06:16 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 06:12 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 02:34 PM)Free Wrote:  Science will end when humankind ends, just like everything else will end.

For someone who has at least some hinkling to thinking that intelligent life from beyond Earth has already visited earth, that seems like a bizarre narrow-focused choice of phrase to use.

From the start of this thread, I had one answer. When sentient life ends... science ends.

Science is a human construct, as far as we know. Perhaps some other life form views things from a completely different point of view from which we cannot even begin to understand.

Can we expect any other intelligent sentient life to view things according to the human equation?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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16-12-2014, 06:39 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
Topic: Science is a methodology, to say that it'll end when we discover everything isn't accurate:
I decide that I want toast. I put bread in the toaster on the hypothisis that this will produce slightly burnt bread. The toaster cooks the bread. I have performed an experiment.

I want to get too Morrow. I ask a chick in the street where Morrow is and I follow her directions; because you have to go too Morrow. Morrow never comes. I've performed an experiment hypothisising that she is trustworthy and that she knows the way too Morrow. I experiment with my gathered data by testing that claim.

The only way/ when science will disappear is, as Clyde said: when everything able to perform an experiment is dead.

Not going to bother looking for a specific post to respond to:
Why is it better to be alive than dead? Because all the evidence points towards death being the end of our ability to experience things. Experiencing things is generally thought of as a good thing.

It's a personal judgement of value based on empiric evidence and observations. No faith required.

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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16-12-2014, 06:44 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 06:16 PM)Free Wrote:  Can we expect any other intelligent sentient life to view things according to the human equation?

Can anything formulate another way of gathering information that isn't data+ hypothisis ratified by experimentation?

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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16-12-2014, 06:49 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
Right now Dark Energy and Dark Matter comprise the vast majority of whatever constitutes this universe, (95 %). We know almost nothing about it, or about what may be beyond it. Every time humans have decided they know what Reality is, smaller and larger layers are discovered. We are not special.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-12-2014, 07:04 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 06:44 PM)Stuffed_Assumption_Meringue Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 06:16 PM)Free Wrote:  Can we expect any other intelligent sentient life to view things according to the human equation?

Can anything formulate another way of gathering information that isn't data+ hypothisis ratified by experimentation?

We, as humans, would not, and could not, know or understand.

At least not currently.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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16-12-2014, 07:09 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
Quote:You know... You could go die, find out, and report back with your findings!

I'm 62 (going on 16) so I'll likely be completing your job assignment before long. :-) Well, except maybe that last bit...

Quote:But seriously, there is no evidence for any sort of soul or consciousness that survives the death of the brain. If you're dead, you can't be better off, because YOU, as a personality, no longer exist. Problem solved.

This is a very common theory. And that's all it is. The Jesus heaven and hell theory is pretty common too. Lots of theories out there, but no answers so far.
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16-12-2014, 07:15 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 01:24 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Here's a question I hope you'll find engaging and relevant to the interest of members here.

When will science end?

How long will it be until the scientists hold a press conference to announce that they've learned it all, and are thus closing up shop?

A related question might be, is the pace of knowledge development accelerating? Should we expect to learn more each century than we learned in the previous century?

If you answer that 1) knowledge development will continue for a long time and 2) probably at an ever accelerating rate....

What does that say about what we know today?

Are we yet in a position to offer meaningful theories, let alone conclusions, about the kinds of issues addressed by the debate between religion and atheism?

Does anybody on any side really have a clue what we're talking about? Or do we just love talking?

Ok, your turn, go!

Why would there be a debate between religion and atheism?
They are not mutually exclusive. One is not the flip side of the other.
Stupid question on your part.

maybe rephrase it?
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16-12-2014, 07:18 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2014 07:21 PM by Free.)
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 07:09 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
Quote:You know... You could go die, find out, and report back with your findings!

I'm 62 (going on 16) so I'll likely be completing your job assignment before long. :-) Well, except maybe that last bit...

Quote:But seriously, there is no evidence for any sort of soul or consciousness that survives the death of the brain. If you're dead, you can't be better off, because YOU, as a personality, no longer exist. Problem solved.

This is a very common theory. And that's all it is. The Jesus heaven and hell theory is pretty common too. Lots of theories out there, but no answers so far.

It's not a theory; it is the current state of our knowledge. We cannot assume there is anything more.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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16-12-2014, 07:22 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 07:09 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  
Quote:You know... You could go die, find out, and report back with your findings!

I'm 62 (going on 16) so I'll likely be completing your job assignment before long. :-) Well, except maybe that last bit...

Quote:But seriously, there is no evidence for any sort of soul or consciousness that survives the death of the brain. If you're dead, you can't be better off, because YOU, as a personality, no longer exist. Problem solved.

This is a very common theory. And that's all it is. The Jesus heaven and hell theory is pretty common too. Lots of theories out there, but no answers so far.

Well actually no. Jesus was a Jew. For most of their history most of the Jews did not believe in immortality. Paul of Tarsus thought only the saved were immortal. Sheol was neither heaven, nor hell. Immortality in Hebrew culture arose late in the Apocalyptic period, and was further advanced when that came into contact with Greek culture. In Jesus day, (assuming there was a Jesus of Nazareth), only certain sects of Jews believed in immortality. There may be "lots of theories", yet not one of them is coherent, or proposes a method or mechanism for post-mortem preservation of consciousness. In light of what is known concerning how damaged human brains function, and the level of consciousness they exhibit, there is no reason to think consciousness can continue without in intact functioning, oxygenated brain.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-12-2014, 07:23 PM
RE: When Will Science End?
(16-12-2014 04:44 PM)unfogged Wrote:  All of the evidence that we have points to death being the end and that when the electrochemical activity in the brain stops the consciousness does too.

If we return to the question of when science will end, we find a reply to your reasonable statement.

If it is true that science will continue for a very long time....

And if it is true that knowledge development will likely continue at an ever accelerating rate...

It follows that there a LOT of things we don't currently know. We may currently know just 1% of what we will know in just a few hundred years.

Seen in that light, statements like "all the evidence points to X" are essentially meaningless.

Here's an example. Only 100 years ago we didn't know about the hundreds of billions of galaxies we now know are there. 99%+ of the universe, we completely missed it.

The God question is a question about the ultimate nature of EVERYTHING. We still don't even know what "everything" refers to.

So my thesis is tjat all the evidence that we have points to us currently being unqualified to say anything useful about infinite scale questions such as death and God etc, the kinds of questions religion typically addresses.

In my thesis, theism and atheism are essentially the same thing, a bunch of folks experiencing the fun of fantasy knowings.
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