When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
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08-07-2017, 02:03 AM
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(08-07-2017 01:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 01:09 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  There's also issue with North Koreans seeing Kim as a god - there is difference between them saying that and believing it. Genuine belief is possible but one has to remember that citizens of totalitarian states aren't exactly free to say what they think.

Lastly brainwashing in totalitarian country is no laughing matter.

I think these two paragraphs are more or less what OP is worried about in America. The Strong Man Who Protects His People.

USA isn't totalitarian regime though even if it have problem with incarceration rates or gov spying on own people.

To me it seems like OP is worried about more than strong man and without good reason - swallowing one bullshit does not mean that one will swallow another much bigger pile.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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08-07-2017, 03:58 AM
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(08-07-2017 01:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  The one thing that is true is that he's a living reminder of how shit Trump is as a president, because every time he implements some new crappy policy, people will compare him to Obama unfavourably.

The Republican party has boiled down to little more than trying to tear down what little good the last administration was able to accomplish (ACA), because heaven forbid the other team get to keep a 'win' on their score card.

They're not even the party of 'no ideas', they're the party of 'you can't have ideas either'.

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08-07-2017, 04:04 AM
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(08-07-2017 02:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  USA isn't totalitarian regime though even if it have problem with incarceration rates or gov spying on own people.

What it is, is an oligarchy. Money talks. Hell, money is protected speech. Policy trends don't follow popular opinion, they follow donor money. More and more of that money is being funneled into fewer and fewer hands. People know the system is fucked, but mostly disagree on how to fix it; and in that inaction, the oligarchs consolidate and fortify their gains.

It's a real shame that 'class warfare' is such a dirty word, because truth be told, the lower and middle class have simply been losing a war they have mostly refused to acknowledge for almost half a century.

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08-07-2017, 04:24 AM
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(08-07-2017 04:04 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 02:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  USA isn't totalitarian regime though even if it have problem with incarceration rates or gov spying on own people.

What it is, is an oligarchy. Money talks. Hell, money is protected speech. Policy trends don't follow popular opinion, they follow donor money. More and more of that money is being funneled into fewer and fewer hands. People know the system is fucked, but mostly disagree on how to fix it; and in that inaction, the oligarchs consolidate and fortify their gains.

I won't disagree as I don't know enough about USA.

Wasn't money equal speech decision of Supreme court? I dimly recall reading something about it - I was quite surprised with such reasoning.

Quote:It's a real shame that 'class warfare' is such a dirty word, because truth be told, the lower and middle class have simply been losing a war they have mostly refused to acknowledge for almost half a century.

When left is no longer interested in battle for language then words that could be used to accurately describe situation aren't used or are claimed outdated/absurd. Nothing surprising in it.

One could say that USA with it's dislike of "socialism" is a case of language corrupting the thought.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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08-07-2017, 04:54 AM
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(08-07-2017 02:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 01:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  I think these two paragraphs are more or less what OP is worried about in America. The Strong Man Who Protects His People.

USA isn't totalitarian regime though even if it have problem with incarceration rates or gov spying on own people.

To me it seems like OP is worried about more than strong man and without good reason - swallowing one bullshit does not mean that one will swallow another much bigger pile.

I disagree. I think Trump is making surprising progress in his project to subvert the state for his own gain. Totalitarian state in his reign, maybe not. But he's paving the way for others and weakening their democratic institutions with stunning success. And he might yet wear the crown himself. I've seen enough of these guys underestimated even in my short time observing politics, that I won't be surprised if they do go that way.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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08-07-2017, 04:56 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2017 07:19 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(08-07-2017 04:54 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 02:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  What it is, is an oligarchy. Money talks. Hell, money is protected speech. Policy trends don't follow popular opinion, they follow donor money. More and more of that money is being funneled into fewer and fewer hands. People know the system is fucked, but mostly disagree on how to fix it; and in that inaction, the oligarchs consolidate and fortify their gains.
I won't disagree as I don't know enough about USA.

Wasn't money equal speech decision of Supreme court? I dimly recall reading something about it - I was quite surprised with such reasoning.


Indeed, that was the Citizens United decision. Arguably one of the largest blows to American democracy in our lifetime.


(08-07-2017 04:54 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 02:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  It's a real shame that 'class warfare' is such a dirty word, because truth be told, the lower and middle class have simply been losing a war they have mostly refused to acknowledge for almost half a century.

When left is no longer interested in battle for language then words that could be used to accurately describe situation aren't used or are claimed outdated/absurd. Nothing surprising in it.

One could say that USA with it's dislike of "socialism" is a case of language corrupting the thought.


People love their Medicare and their Medicaid, but they don't realize those are socialistic policies. There is a huge disconnect there. Sadly par for the course in a country still debating evolution and women's access to contraception. The conservative right has largely won the war of words, and everyone but those in power are worse off for it.

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08-07-2017, 05:32 AM
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(08-07-2017 04:54 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-07-2017 02:03 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  USA isn't totalitarian regime though even if it have problem with incarceration rates or gov spying on own people.

To me it seems like OP is worried about more than strong man and without good reason - swallowing one bullshit does not mean that one will swallow another much bigger pile.

I disagree. I think Trump is making surprising progress in his project to subvert the state for his own gain. Totalitarian state in his reign, maybe not. But he's paving the way for others and weakening their democratic institutions with stunning success. And he might yet wear the crown himself. I've seen enough of these guys underestimated even in my short time observing politics, that I won't be surprised if they do go that way.

I'm not seeing it but then I'm not particularly interested in news from USA. He succeed with immigrants ban if I'm not mistaken but what else he did achieved?

I think that Trump will do some damage but I don't expect anything world shattering. It's remind me of Poland somehow - L&J are bunch of clowns and idiots but lasting damage will be negligible, mostly cause state was already damaged and what they do is further disruption rather than some new quality; party preceding them wasn't as bad but they definitely weren't people who I would wish to rule country I live in. With Trump I see it in same light - he is capable of doing further damage to something that was already fucked (war on drugs, prisons). Just a layman opinion though, can easily be mistaken

(08-07-2017 04:56 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  People love their Medicare and their Medicaid, but they don't realize those are socialistic policies. There is a huge disconnect there. Sadly par for the course in a country still debating evolution and women's access to contraception. The conservative right has largely won the war of words, and everyone but those in power are worse off for it.

It's not much dissimilar from situation in Poland - country which have huge problem with contraception and abortion (evolution is taught though, or it was in my time), where "communism" is boogeyman which suddenly appeared in 1989 and socialists want to take what's yours even when said socialists were so pro-market that they fucked working class in name of reforms.

War for language also is one the left lost - abortion is murder of unborn and people are afraid of something called "gender ideology" or "civilization of death".

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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08-07-2017, 08:12 AM
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(07-07-2017 07:40 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 06:35 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  Don't you think that had Clinton won, he would have been right there to "help" her continue his so-called legacy?

No. While I think Obama was rather ineffective as president and don't like many of the policies he maintained while in office, he is an adult and obviously very intelligent. He may have been willing to serve if asked he never came across as seeking personal glory.

He stands in stark contrast to the vain, childish fool that replaced him.

Just here to let you know that half the country still thinks of Obama as a "vain, childish fool" who still seeks to control US opinion, perhaps policies, via his EU visits and various speeches.

Obama came off as a man who considered himself to be a god, who only sought personal glory. I don't think he was particularly intelligent, but knew well how to work the system articulated by Alinsky.

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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08-07-2017, 08:20 AM
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(08-07-2017 08:12 AM)Jeanne Wrote:  
(07-07-2017 07:40 PM)unfogged Wrote:  No. While I think Obama was rather ineffective as president and don't like many of the policies he maintained while in office, he is an adult and obviously very intelligent. He may have been willing to serve if asked he never came across as seeking personal glory.

He stands in stark contrast to the vain, childish fool that replaced him.

Just here to let you know that half the country still thinks of Obama as a "vain, childish fool" who still seeks to control US opinion, perhaps policies, via his EU visits and various speeches.

Obama came off as a man who considered himself to be a god, who only sought personal glory. I don't think he was particularly intelligent, but knew well how to work the system articulated by Alinsky.

And half the country thought it was a good idea to vote for Trump. This country is insane. The other half of the country is completely embarrassed by that half, which is understandable considering that the rest of the civilized world is currently saying, "What the fuck are you doing America?".

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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08-07-2017, 08:31 AM
RE: When You Laugh At Some So Stupid Then It Becomes You're Reality
(08-07-2017 01:55 AM)morondog Wrote:  Jeanne, your post about Obama... You know that he voluntarily stepped aside right? No one was in a better position than him, if he had wanted to cling to power. He's not said much post Trump being elected. He's not done much other than normal shit. Who's fault is it that the media follow him around? The one thing that is true is that he's a living reminder of how shit Trump is as a president, because every time he implements some new crappy policy, people will compare him to Obama unfavourably.


The president can only serve two consecutive terms. Obama did not "voluntarily step aside." The former president has always owed the sitting president his silence, as exemplified by George W. Bush's actions. Obama instead speaks as if he is still president, which weakens our current president's words and actions. His visit to foreign leaders during the first months of Trump's administration was not only in poor taste, but dangerous to the current administration and such action has, in our time, been considered inappropriate.

The other half is comparing Trump to Obama favorably. I just wanted to represent that part of our fellow citizenry.

I do not approve of fully with the Trump administration's agenda, but I do approve of much of it. And...there are many who are like me. There was hardly anything that the Obama administration did of which I approved and I certainly did not like the man in the least. Could not look at him and could not listen to his ridiculous speech pattern or the content of his speeches, yet I did.

Trump may be boorish at times, but I have more confidence in his intelligence than ever in Obama's. Except in the very beginning, when Time magazine did an article on Barry as a young Senator..and I thought, wow, maybe... But, no. The more I learned, the more I distrusted and that distrust came to be near hatred, which was discomforting.

We were a couple that sat in despair after the second election of Obama. There are more of us out here and those here who think we are idiots should know that. We come from all walks of life, all deity beliefs and none, all ethnicities, all educational backgrounds, and all political leanings.

There are idiots and rubes and ignorant people on each side. I do not assume that Obama worshippers are idiots and rubes...well, sometimes I do...but I assume that they do not have the same information that I have and/or they simply think about things in a different manner.

And...surprise, they think the same thing about me.

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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