When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
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22-02-2017, 09:03 AM
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
(21-02-2017 10:12 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-02-2017 08:14 PM)Rik Wrote:  With a 50% chance of being spontaneously aborted, a non-zero probability of serious genetic defects and a non-zero probability of implanting in the Fallopian tube requiring surgical removal, so pretty much a less than 50-50 chance of becoming a human being.
And it is most certainly not a person and only persons have protection under the law.
100% human.
But around 50% chance of making it to full term and being born.


(21-02-2017 08:14 PM)Rik Wrote:  It's fertilized, it is a chicken embryo. It is not a chicken.
A chicken embryo, a chicken chick, a chicken adult, these are all phases in the life of a chicken. All of which are chicken.

For human we have Human embryo, human fetus, human baby, human infant, human teenager, human adult. All of which are human.

I don't understand your logic.
Just because a certain percentage of children don't live long enough to make it to being adults, it doesn't mean they weren't human beings.
Just as, just because a certain percentage of fetus don't live long enough to be born doesn't mean they weren't human beings.

Skin cells are "human life".
A zygote is a potential human being.
So are stem cells, so are sperm cells. So are oocytes.

You draw the line for yourself wherever you want to draw the line FOR YOURSLF.
Others will do the same.

Men talking about abortion is so ridiculous.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-02-2017, 09:04 AM
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
(22-02-2017 08:48 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Those whole "give to the poor" and "throw away your riches" things in your bible are awfully inconvenient, aren't they?

They are, they're entirely inconvenient passages, that go against my very nature. They're the sort of passage that make you wish that God didn't exist, so you can continue on unperturbed as you always have, with no considerations on being any different.

I could have gone the typical route of trying to say the passages in question don't apply here, but I rather the be honest and say it's not that they don't apply, just that I don't care to apply them.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-02-2017, 09:05 AM
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
(21-02-2017 02:32 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  I can, by voting for candidates that represent the values I hold, or at least support policies that represent those values. Folks like Rocketsurgeon might favor unrestricted abortion no matter whatever the stage of pregnancy or circumstance, but as long as his views are a minority view of among the electorate, and the candidates they choose, my values, in the form of legal restrictions, are binding on him and others.

Ah yes. The old "tyranny of the majority".
Incredibly short sighted.
Works for *me* as long as I get what *I* want.
Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-02-2017, 09:08 AM
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
(22-02-2017 09:04 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(22-02-2017 08:48 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Those whole "give to the poor" and "throw away your riches" things in your bible are awfully inconvenient, aren't they?

They are, they're entirely inconvenient passages, that go against my very nature. They're the sort of passage that make you wish that God didn't exist, so you can continue on unperturbed as you always have, with no considerations on being any different.

I could have God the typical route of trying to say the passages in question don't apply here, but I rather the be honest and say it's not that they don't apply, just that I don't care to apply them.
Oh, I see.

So you're not a real Christian then, because you make an intentional choice to defy the teachings of Jesus. You only choose to live by Christian doctrines that meet with your financial and political ends. Otherwise, not so much. OK, got it.

I guess that means I'm not a real atheist then, because I do, as a matter of fact, give to the poor and volunteer my time to make life better for my fellow human beings.

So much for the bible being a source of morality. But we already knew that, didn't we?
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22-02-2017, 09:19 AM
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
(22-02-2017 09:08 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  So you're not a real Christian then, because you make an intentional choice to defy the teachings of Jesus. You only choose to live by Christian doctrines that meet with your financial and political ends. Otherwise, not so much. OK, got it.

I'm a rebellious christian. I'm only a real christian, in that I believe Christianity is true, I might not like that it's true, but I have no choice but to accept that it is. I'd much prefer to be an atheists in this regard.

I'm not a "real" christian, in that I'm an avid follower of it's principles, or that I live as I ought to.

Quote:So much for the bible being a source of morality. But we already knew that, didn't we?

Sure we do, the long violent history of Christianity should indicate why.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-02-2017, 09:24 AM
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
(22-02-2017 09:05 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Ah yes. The old "tyranny of the majority".
Incredibly short sighted.
Works for *me* as long as I get what *I* want.
Facepalm

No, I'm pragmatic, if there's any long sighted concerns, that might effect me getting what I want, I'd consider them and possible ways to resolve them. I'm willing to give others what they want, just as as long as it serves to give me what I want. Like a long term investment.

The sort of way corporations contribute or support a variety of causes, not because they give a shit, but becomes it adds value to their brand, attracts more buyers, etc...

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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22-02-2017, 12:12 PM
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
(22-02-2017 09:03 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Skin cells are "human life".
Do skin cells develop into a unique baby?

(22-02-2017 09:03 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  A zygote is a potential human being.
Where do I find this definition of a "potential human being"? Is it in an authoritative science book?
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22-02-2017, 12:14 PM
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
(21-02-2017 07:46 PM)Rik Wrote:  
(21-02-2017 07:33 PM)Stevil Wrote:  It's not a cat, a dog or a dolphin, nor is it a rock. It is a living human in its very early stages of life.

It is not yet a human any more than an egg is a chicken.
But why are you talking about the actual chicken egg rather than the chicken inside the egg?
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22-02-2017, 12:17 PM (This post was last modified: 22-02-2017 02:19 PM by Stevil.)
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
(22-02-2017 07:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  That's the system we live in, it may not be perfect, but I'm content with it, that's just the nature of democracy. The majority voting population decides which candidates govern, the candidates select supreme court judges, who interpret and apply constitutional principles, etc..
The constitution protects minorities from the whims of the majority.

(22-02-2017 07:59 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  And the only interest I have is in myself, my family, and my community, and what serves them best what upholds their values.
Well, no, you have interest in forcing your own values onto strangers. You don't mind your own business, you don't respect others.
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22-02-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: When does a human become a human? (Abortion)
I keep reading the thread title to be:
When does a human become a human abortion? Dodgy Laughat

And then ... I consider some people and think ... that's a pretty valid rhetorical question. Drinking Beverage

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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