Poll: When does life begin?
Before conception
At conception
After a woman can have an abortion
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When does life begin?
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01-10-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: When does life begin?
(01-10-2014 11:01 AM)Nurse Wrote:  OP, don't confuse the term life with sentience.
fixed 1st post
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01-10-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: When does life begin?
No valid choices were listed to vote.

What is meant by "life"?
Does "life" refer to a collection of cells in a petri dish? (bacteria are alive)
Does "life" refer to sentient awareness? (cows are sentient and alive)

When addressing "life" one might also address the ability to sustain said "life". (anencephaly occurs 1 in 10,000 births)
As well, "quality of life" may have an effect on the sustainability of said "life". (a crack baby raised by anyone is still addicted)
***


It seems to be quite easy for some people to be so fucking superficial about things when it is very obvious they haven't thought it through themselves. Drinking Beverage

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01-10-2014, 11:10 AM
RE: When does life begin?
(01-10-2014 10:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  How can life begin before conception? Huh

Every sperm is sacred!
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01-10-2014, 11:18 AM
RE: When does life begin?
[Image: tumblr_mlhnqfkcr31qf5hl4o1_500.gif]

Elle: For that matter, any masturbatory emissions, where the sperm is clearly not seeking an egg, could be termed reckless abandonment.

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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01-10-2014, 11:23 AM
RE: When does life begin?
(01-10-2014 10:08 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  I'm having a discussion at a local forum with an atheist and he says that life begins before conception which sounds strange to me Blink

Sounds like an atheist in name only. Religion is the only way to even appear to make sense of such a claim.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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01-10-2014, 11:27 AM (This post was last modified: 01-10-2014 11:49 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: When does life begin?
The question as you have posed it, is meaningless, in 2014.

Is it when :
a. sperm approaches egg ?
((The first sperm cell that reaches the egg is NOT the one that ends up replicating it's DNA inside the egg ... the first sperm cell that reaches the egg discharges a packet of chemicals that prepares the egg to allow one of the following sperm cells in, (as Embryologists, Physiologists and Biochemists know), it cannot be when the first sperm cell reaches and enters the egg wall.))
b. 1st electron of sperm cell enters electron cloud of egg cell ?
c. sperm contacts egg wall ?
d. sperm 1/2 way into egg ?
e. sperm entirely in egg ?
f. DNA of sperm contacts DNA of egg ?
g. DNA replication begins ?
h. DNA replication 0.567534521897 % complete ?
i. 1st DNA replication complete, (poof..soul enters) ?
j. 2nd DNA completes ?
k. zygote forms ?
l. zygote multiplies ?
m. zygote begins to travel ?
l. zygote approaches endometrial wall ?
m. zygote touches endometrial wall ?
n. zygote implants in endometrial wall ?

The Department Heads of the academic OBGYN departments in the world's universities cannot agree what the word "conception" means. The real question here is when do human beings grant "legal personhood" to a fetus. Is a clump of cells with no brain, and no neural tube a "person" ? No. It's a POTENTIAL person. Is it a "baby" ? No. It's a potential baby. Is a sperm cell a "person" ? No. It's a potential person, (perhaps with a somewhat less probable outcome than the zygote). The ONLY reason it's a question, posed in these terms, is because religionists pretend that humans have souls. That's the REAL issue here for religious people, and THEY HAVE NO RIGHT to impose their idiot religious views onto others. Human life is on-going. Sperm cells and oocytes are alive. So are your skin cells. They are "human life". Can you "abort" your skin cells, (which do have stem cells which could potentially become a baby in 2014).

Guess what ?

Time to join the 21st Century.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-10-2014, 11:35 AM
RE: When does life begin?
(01-10-2014 11:10 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(01-10-2014 10:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  How can life begin before conception? Huh

Every sperm is sacred!

Thanks Robby! Some things only Monty Python can handle. Drinking Beverage




" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
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01-10-2014, 12:13 PM
RE: When does life begin?
(01-10-2014 10:08 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  Sorry for my English
Hello everyone, creationist here. Please answer this question. When does human life begin?
1 Before conception.
2 At conception.
3 After it is legal for a woman to have an abortion.

Btw this question has nothing to do with abortion debate in US. I'm having a discussion at a local forum with an atheist and he says that life begins before conception which sounds strange to me Blink

Wow, this is disingenuous and insulting. The poll choices are leading and I seriously doubt that it is intended to encourage honest discussion. But I'll play along.

First we must determine what a life is. And this is hard in this context. When does the child develop a self that is independent of the mother's life? Mentally this doesn't happen until after the child is born. We would all agree infanticide is wrong (I hope) so we are talking about the physical bodily autonomy from the mother. This isn't as clear.

We don't consider a woman who simply has a miscarriage to be a murderer. If the zygote fails to implant we don't consider that a "lost life." So why is it wrong if she takes a drug to prevent it from implanting? Bit that's off topic. The answer is that there's no clear demarcation of "alive" and "not alive." The question I consider is the possibility of suffering and the viability of the fetus. If the fetus is viable outside the womb (late third trimester) I would consider termination to be a last resort.
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01-10-2014, 12:25 PM
RE: When does life begin?
(01-10-2014 12:13 PM)natachan Wrote:  
(01-10-2014 10:08 AM)dimaniac Wrote:  Sorry for my English
Hello everyone, creationist here. Please answer this question. When does human life begin?
1 Before conception.
2 At conception.
3 After it is legal for a woman to have an abortion.

Btw this question has nothing to do with abortion debate in US. I'm having a discussion at a local forum with an atheist and he says that life begins before conception which sounds strange to me Blink

Wow, this is disingenuous and insulting. The poll choices are leading and I seriously doubt that it is intended to encourage honest discussion. But I'll play along.

First we must determine what a life is. And this is hard in this context. When does the child develop a self that is independent of the mother's life? Mentally this doesn't happen until after the child is born. We would all agree infanticide is wrong (I hope) so we are talking about the physical bodily autonomy from the mother. This isn't as clear.

We don't consider a woman who simply has a miscarriage to be a murderer. If the zygote fails to implant we don't consider that a "lost life." So why is it wrong if she takes a drug to prevent it from implanting? Bit that's off topic. The answer is that there's no clear demarcation of "alive" and "not alive." The question I consider is the possibility of suffering and the viability of the fetus. If the fetus is viable outside the womb (late third trimester) I would consider termination to be a last resort.

The majority ( > 50 %) of fertilized human eggs spontaneously abort. I guess for religionists, that would make the gods the most prolific abortionists. (Marvelously "designed" are we ?)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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01-10-2014, 01:20 PM
RE: When does life begin?
(01-10-2014 12:25 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The majority ( > 50 %) of fertilized human eggs spontaneously abort. I guess for religionists, that would make the gods the most prolific abortionists. (Marvelously "designed" are we ?)

Of course, most theists will dismiss this because God works in mysterious ways.

Bonus points: tell the life-begins-at-conception pro-lifer that under these circumstances, procreation constitutes reckless endangerment and watch the special pleading and butthurt begin!
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