When fictional stories get it wrong
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23-07-2017, 03:28 PM
When fictional stories get it wrong
I was watching a short video on the history of the four quadrants of the Star Trek - Milky Way galaxy.
The four quadrants are the...

[Image: Galactic_Quadrant_Star_Trek.png]

A question was raised about all the races in Star Trek and why they all were humanoid in appearance.

The proposed answer was that an ancient civilization traveled throughout the galaxy and seeded many planets with the same building blocks of life.

The thing is, when you're dealing with fiction, your explanations are going to be wrong because the foundation of your fiction isn't true to begin with.

The reality is that all of the Star Trek races are humanoids because they are all human actors who are made up to be members of other races.

It's fiction. Those other planetary races don't exist.
When you try to explain how a fictional story can be true, you are bound to get it wrong.

When you look at stories in the bible, like Noah's flood or an explanation for why we have different languages in the story - Tower of Babel, you get into some very crazy explanations that are completely false. They are false because the foundation of the stories are fictional.

When you try to explain the fictional stories in the bible, you're bound to get it wrong.

Why ?
Because it's not true to begin with.

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23-07-2017, 04:40 PM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(23-07-2017 03:28 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  The reality is that all of the Star Trek races are humanoids because they are all human actors who are made up to be members of other races.
Also, more pragmatically, it's cheaper (and more convincing) to depict humanoids. You just put humans in costumes and makeup. This is less and less true thanks to CGI techniques, but you still have the problem that humanoids are more relatable, and it's important that the audience relate to the characters and care about them.
(23-07-2017 03:28 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  When you look at stories in the bible, like Noah's flood or an explanation for why we have different languages in the story - Tower of Babel, you get into some very crazy explanations that are completely false. They are false because the foundation of the stories are fictional.

When you try to explain the fictional stories in the bible, you're bound to get it wrong.

Why ?
Because it's not true to begin with.
Of course, this is not an assumption that believers begin with. They assume it's true, so they act rather like Trekkies at a convention, only worse. At some level a Trekkie knows they are deliberately acting out a fantasy; a god-botherer thinks they are acting out some "higher reality".
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23-07-2017, 06:00 PM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
The get the "division" of space incorrect, as well. If you pick an arbitrary origin (earth Rolleyes we're just the abrahamic gad's special snowflakes, after all) it should be divided by three planes, not two. So it should be octants, not quadrants.
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24-07-2017, 02:00 AM (This post was last modified: 24-07-2017 02:04 AM by Glossophile.)
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
I'm a Superman fan, but I've always been bugged by a similar issue with the Kryptonian race. Exactly how is that the intelligent life on a faraway planet just happened to evolve in a way that makes them outwardly indistinguishable from humans? Granted, we are talking about superhero comics, but still...it seems like a bit of a stretch even by the standards of the genre. In my own fanfics as well as some of the most recent comics, Clark even has children, which only adds to the conundrum, because now we've established that he can interbreed with a very human Lois.

I like to think that Kryptonians were actually descendants of prehistoric Homo sapiens who were enslaved by the original inhabitants of Krypton, who were as different from Earthly life as you would reasonably expect them to be. The captors had to tweak the human genome in order to enable their captives to survive in the Kryptionian environment, but those tweaks are exactly what ends up giving them their powers if returned to an Earth-like environment. Eventually, the descendants of the original human slaves managed to rebel and take over the planet for themselves, and perhaps centuries or millennia later, Jor-El realizes Krypton is doomed, and the rest unfolds as we know it.

This not only adds some extra plausibility to the mythology, but it gives the tale a certain poetic circularity to it. Kal-El ultimately returns as the last of his kind to the very planet that birthed his ancestors. Of course, this is ultimately a post-hoc rationalization, but it's just for fun. Unlike the theists, I'm not trying to bolster the claim that my mythical figure is somehow real.

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Ἡ μόνη ἱερᾱ̀ ἀληθείᾱ ἐν φυσικῇ φιλοσοφίᾳ ἐστίν ἡ ἱερῶν ἀληθειῶν σπάνις.
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24-07-2017, 03:55 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(23-07-2017 03:28 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I was watching a short video on the history of the four quadrants of the Star Trek - Milky Way galaxy.
The four quadrants are the...

[Image: Galactic_Quadrant_Star_Trek.png]

A question was raised about all the races in Star Trek and why they all were humanoid in appearance.

The proposed answer was that an ancient civilization traveled throughout the galaxy and seeded many planets with the same building blocks of life.

The thing is, when you're dealing with fiction, your explanations are going to be wrong because the foundation of your fiction isn't true to begin with.

The reality is that all of the Star Trek races are humanoids because they are all human actors who are made up to be members of other races.

It's fiction. Those other planetary races don't exist.
When you try to explain how a fictional story can be true, you are bound to get it wrong.

When you look at stories in the bible, like Noah's flood or an explanation for why we have different languages in the story - Tower of Babel, you get into some very crazy explanations that are completely false. They are false because the foundation of the stories are fictional.

When you try to explain the fictional stories in the bible, you're bound to get it wrong.

Why ?
Because it's not true to begin with.

BLASPHEMY!

Next you'll be saying that there's no workable explanation for how artificial gravity works even when the ships lose power and it's all because they're just a bunch of actors standing on sets firmly located in Earth's gravity field even then!

(23-07-2017 06:00 PM)Fireball Wrote:  The get the "division" of space incorrect, as well. If you pick an arbitrary origin (earth Rolleyes we're just the abrahamic gad's special snowflakes, after all) it should be divided by three planes, not two. So it should be octants, not quadrants.

Eh, the Milky Way's fairly flat, it makes sense not to subdivide it along the cross-section of its disc.
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24-07-2017, 04:01 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
In fairness it could be argued that the "humanoid" form is best for organisms to prosper to the "advanced race status", that live on land and are carbon based. IE have two arms, two legs, eyes/mouth/hearing abilitys/developed brain etc

All the same, yes the point is it's just a fictional show with actors.

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24-07-2017, 05:23 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(24-07-2017 03:55 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 03:28 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I was watching a short video on the history of the four quadrants of the Star Trek - Milky Way galaxy.
The four quadrants are the...

[Image: Galactic_Quadrant_Star_Trek.png]

A question was raised about all the races in Star Trek and why they all were humanoid in appearance.

The proposed answer was that an ancient civilization traveled throughout the galaxy and seeded many planets with the same building blocks of life.

The thing is, when you're dealing with fiction, your explanations are going to be wrong because the foundation of your fiction isn't true to begin with.

The reality is that all of the Star Trek races are humanoids because they are all human actors who are made up to be members of other races.

It's fiction. Those other planetary races don't exist.
When you try to explain how a fictional story can be true, you are bound to get it wrong.

When you look at stories in the bible, like Noah's flood or an explanation for why we have different languages in the story - Tower of Babel, you get into some very crazy explanations that are completely false. They are false because the foundation of the stories are fictional.

When you try to explain the fictional stories in the bible, you're bound to get it wrong.

Why ?
Because it's not true to begin with.

BLASPHEMY!

Next you'll be saying that there's no workable explanation for how artificial gravity works even when the ships lose power and it's all because they're just a bunch of actors standing on sets firmly located in Earth's gravity field even then!

It's the same force that makes the floors solid and the atmosphere breathable even when the character is "out of phase" and can walk through objects and walls.

Quote:
(23-07-2017 06:00 PM)Fireball Wrote:  The get the "division" of space incorrect, as well. If you pick an arbitrary origin (earth Rolleyes we're just the abrahamic gad's special snowflakes, after all) it should be divided by three planes, not two. So it should be octants, not quadrants.

Eh, the Milky Way's fairly flat, it makes sense not to subdivide it along the cross-section of its disc.

Yeah, but they've got the Kilngons and Romulans in the beta quadrant and going around the circle you have alpha-beta-delta-gamma. That chart is just a mess.

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24-07-2017, 05:33 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(24-07-2017 05:23 AM)unfogged Wrote:  It's the same force that makes the floors solid and the atmosphere breathable even when the character is "out of phase" and can walk through objects and walls.
Is it the same force that allows holograms to being solid living matter and walk freely out of the holodeck?

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24-07-2017, 05:42 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(24-07-2017 05:33 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 05:23 AM)unfogged Wrote:  It's the same force that makes the floors solid and the atmosphere breathable even when the character is "out of phase" and can walk through objects and walls.
Is it the same force that allows holograms to being solid living matter and walk freely out of the holodeck?

No, that requires a meta-holodeck

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24-07-2017, 06:40 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(24-07-2017 05:42 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 05:33 AM)OakTree500 Wrote:  Is it the same force that allows holograms to being solid living matter and walk freely out of the holodeck?

No, that requires a meta-holodeck
Or a hard-light drive aboard Red Dwarf.

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