When fictional stories get it wrong
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25-07-2017, 03:57 PM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(23-07-2017 03:28 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  I was watching a short video on the history of the four quadrants of the Star Trek - Milky Way galaxy.
The four quadrants are the...

[Image: Galactic_Quadrant_Star_Trek.png]

A question was raised about all the races in Star Trek and why they all were humanoid in appearance.

The proposed answer was that an ancient civilization traveled throughout the galaxy and seeded many planets with the same building blocks of life.

The thing is, when you're dealing with fiction, your explanations are going to be wrong because the foundation of your fiction isn't true to begin with.

The reality is that all of the Star Trek races are humanoids because they are all human actors who are made up to be members of other races.

It's fiction. Those other planetary races don't exist.
When you try to explain how a fictional story can be true, you are bound to get it wrong.

When you look at stories in the bible, like Noah's flood or an explanation for why we have different languages in the story - Tower of Babel, you get into some very crazy explanations that are completely false. They are false because the foundation of the stories are fictional.

When you try to explain the fictional stories in the bible, you're bound to get it wrong.

Why ?
Because it's not true to begin with.

Actually, I disagree somewhat with you. I think it is inevitable that we will eventually discover life out there. It will likely look like us in certain ways. The way our bodies are configured works very well for the creation and use of technology. A dolphin can be smarter than Einstein, but the way the body is configured it can't make technology. It may be able to manipulate it if a human made it for their use, but making or repairing is not possible. There are other possible configurations that may work, but there will be similarities to us. Birds are incredibly intelligent. With talons and eyes that face sideways and a beak, they can fashion tools from sticks or metal but can not do complex things. If we are not strong enough to do something, we might build a forklift or something else, this allows us to build things bigger.
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25-07-2017, 08:48 PM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(25-07-2017 03:57 PM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  I think it is inevitable that we will eventually discover life out there.

*Eyes increased nuclear proliferation, including South Korea's missile program*

...... that's... optimistic.
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26-07-2017, 02:15 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(24-07-2017 03:55 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  ... Next you'll be saying that there's no workable explanation for how artificial gravity works even when the ships lose power and it's all because they're just a bunch of actors standing on sets firmly located in Earth's gravity field even then ...

In the 60s I lived for Thursday nights when Star Trek aired; it was (and still is) outstanding in all important respects: story, casting, and an imagined future technology that made sense. But enthralling as it was, I still crack up at scenes of the Enterprise (or other battle damaged vessel) shown LISTING in space. Sometimes the list would be shown in the interior shots, the crew leaning to stay upright, propping themselves up on consoles, but that could be explained by the gravity generators being knocked out of adjustment. But the list in space? - uh uh. Tongue
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26-07-2017, 04:32 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(26-07-2017 02:15 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  
(24-07-2017 03:55 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  ... Next you'll be saying that there's no workable explanation for how artificial gravity works even when the ships lose power and it's all because they're just a bunch of actors standing on sets firmly located in Earth's gravity field even then ...

In the 60s I lived for Thursday nights when Star Trek aired; it was (and still is) outstanding in all important respects: story, casting, and an imagined future technology that made sense. But enthralling as it was, I still crack up at scenes of the Enterprise (or other battle damaged vessel) shown LISTING in space. Sometimes the list would be shown in the interior shots, the crew leaning to stay upright, propping themselves up on consoles, but that could be explained by the gravity generators being knocked out of adjustment. But the list in space? - uh uh. Tongue

I noted it in another thread somewhere - there being no "up" in space, but anytime an exterior shot appears showing two or more spacecraft, they're always orientated in the same " this side up" attitude......

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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26-07-2017, 07:05 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(26-07-2017 04:32 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 02:15 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  In the 60s I lived for Thursday nights when Star Trek aired; it was (and still is) outstanding in all important respects: story, casting, and an imagined future technology that made sense. But enthralling as it was, I still crack up at scenes of the Enterprise (or other battle damaged vessel) shown LISTING in space. Sometimes the list would be shown in the interior shots, the crew leaning to stay upright, propping themselves up on consoles, but that could be explained by the gravity generators being knocked out of adjustment. But the list in space? - uh uh. Tongue

I noted it in another thread somewhere - there being no "up" in space, but anytime an exterior shot appears showing two or more spacecraft, they're always orientated in the same " this side up" attitude......

If you think about it, having multiple spacecraft oriented in the same way is the better way to do it. If you are aboard the flagship of the formation and you order one say just ahead of you and what would be above to make a left turn, it may come down into your path unless it is oriented in the same way as yours. If that makes any sense. Unless you are going to order it to a specific set of coordinates. Though for close range I don't think that is very likely. A formation exists for a reason. To call out specific coordinates would take too long in combat.
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26-07-2017, 09:38 AM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(26-07-2017 04:32 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(26-07-2017 02:15 AM)Airportkid Wrote:  In the 60s I lived for Thursday nights when Star Trek aired; it was (and still is) outstanding in all important respects: story, casting, and an imagined future technology that made sense. But enthralling as it was, I still crack up at scenes of the Enterprise (or other battle damaged vessel) shown LISTING in space. Sometimes the list would be shown in the interior shots, the crew leaning to stay upright, propping themselves up on consoles, but that could be explained by the gravity generators being knocked out of adjustment. But the list in space? - uh uh. Tongue

I noted it in another thread somewhere - there being no "up" in space, but anytime an exterior shot appears showing two or more spacecraft, they're always orientated in the same " this side up" attitude......
Some of it is just making it relatable to people not accustomed to space. It's not 100% true that the orientation is always exactly the same, but you're right, it tends to be most of the time. There seems to have always been a strong tendency to borrow visuals from the nautical world. One of the most glaring examples to my eye was the warships breaking apart in Starship Troopers, it was what a sinking ship would look like from an underwater perspective but there's no reason for the parts of a ship breaking off to fall downward relative to the viewer, not even toward a planet "below".

The other thing is sound effects of engines, whooshing, weapons fire -- none of which would be heard in space. And fighter spacecraft swooping about like they would in an atmosphere, when this would be fantastically difficult and energy inefficient in space. Even particle weapons fire that's animated and brightly visible when it would of course be traveling at the speed of light and quite possibly not clearly visible in most lighting and atmospheric conditions. Or ... the fact that people shooting such weapons never seem to use any sort of gunsight, they just always hit their target by casually aiming in the general direction without taking any sort of bead on it.
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26-07-2017, 02:26 PM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(23-07-2017 06:00 PM)Fireball Wrote:  The get the "division" of space incorrect, as well. If you pick an arbitrary origin (earth Rolleyes we're just the abrahamic gad's special snowflakes, after all) it should be divided by three planes, not two. So it should be octants, not quadrants.
Yeah, that always bugged me.
For an era of space-faring civilizations, they seemed oddly locked into two dimensional thinking.
They had 3D chess, but their navigational system was enhanced 2D.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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26-07-2017, 08:17 PM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(26-07-2017 02:26 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(23-07-2017 06:00 PM)Fireball Wrote:  The get the "division" of space incorrect, as well. If you pick an arbitrary origin (earth Rolleyes we're just the abrahamic gad's special snowflakes, after all) it should be divided by three planes, not two. So it should be octants, not quadrants.
Yeah, that always bugged me.
For an era of space-faring civilizations, they seemed oddly locked into two dimensional thinking.
They had 3D chess, but their navigational system was enhanced 2D.

To me this would be a case of dumbing it down for your audience. And that's why the bible was written by humans for even dumber humans.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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26-07-2017, 08:25 PM
RE: When fictional stories get it wrong
(23-07-2017 03:28 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  [Image: Galactic_Quadrant_Star_Trek.png]

I don't see Holy Terra on that map anywhere.....

[Image: e75.jpg]

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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