When is Self Defense Justified?
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10-12-2016, 10:15 AM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
(10-12-2016 09:58 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 06:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  How does it work in some these *stand your ground states*? I always get the impression that it applies to the last man standing. That if you are killed, your actions cannot be considered through this prism.

To use a famous example, if Trayvon Martin successfully kills George Zimmerman, he could use this same law to walk. To enjoy its benefit, you have to survive the encounter. Is that correct?

"Stand your ground" -- means you don't have to try to run away from a threat.

Nothing more.

In many cases - having an attacker behind you - where you can't keep visual contact with them is far worse than staying put...... And -- some people (like myself) don't have the luxury of running - as they're physically unable to. (my right foot has no upwards flex, and running is not possible).....

lIt's not a "license to kill" --- that's Hollywood bullshit - and does not exist.

It's not clear, to me, how it would apply in realistic situations.

Suppose someone instigates a fight and consequently find themselves under threat as their potential victim fights back, using their *stand your ground* right. In such a scenario you have two people both fighting threats to their lives. No?

Isn't there a standard that has to be met beyond merely "not having to flee from a threat"?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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10-12-2016, 10:26 AM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
(10-12-2016 10:15 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Isn't there a standard that has to be met beyond merely "not having to flee from a threat"?

I'm assuming there's some concept and wording about "reasonable threat" in there. At least I'm hoping there is.

#sigh
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10-12-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
(10-12-2016 10:26 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 10:15 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Isn't there a standard that has to be met beyond merely "not having to flee from a threat"?

I'm assuming there's some concept and wording about "reasonable threat" in there. At least I'm hoping there is.

I hope so too. The question being, if you jump someone and they overpower you, do you then gain the right to shoot them?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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10-12-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
(10-12-2016 10:31 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 10:26 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I'm assuming there's some concept and wording about "reasonable threat" in there. At least I'm hoping there is.

I hope so too. The question being, if you jump someone and they overpower you, do you then gain the right to shoot them?

Dunno. Good question.

#sigh
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10-12-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
(10-12-2016 10:15 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 09:58 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  "Stand your ground" -- means you don't have to try to run away from a threat.

Nothing more.

In many cases - having an attacker behind you - where you can't keep visual contact with them is far worse than staying put...... And -- some people (like myself) don't have the luxury of running - as they're physically unable to. (my right foot has no upwards flex, and running is not possible).....

lIt's not a "license to kill" --- that's Hollywood bullshit - and does not exist.

It's not clear, to me, how it would apply in realistic situations.

Suppose someone instigates a fight and consequently find themselves under threat as their potential victim fights back, using their *stand your ground* right. In such a scenario you have two people both fighting threats to their lives. No?

Isn't there a standard that has to be met beyond merely "not having to flee from a threat"?

The first person to use force is the aggressor.

You don't want to be that person.

It always comes down to "what is reasonable".

Don't start shit - and you won't get shot.

Or -- live in a country where it's illegal to defend yourself under threat of being accused of "vigilantism" ----- and take your beatings.......


Good luck with that...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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10-12-2016, 08:36 PM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
Is the question meant to be hypothetical based only on my own standards, or taking the law into consideration?

'Murican Canadian
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10-12-2016, 09:28 PM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
Always. The extent of the response depends on the situation. Sometimes just giving your assailant a bloody nose is sufficient, if (s)he just walks away at that point. If the message still doesn't get through, more force is justified. The problem is, you can't depend on someone just walking away; sometimes they just won't quit. Then, it just goes on until they stop. That stopping might be permanent. I've never had to fight that far, yet. But I've been in some scrapes with broken beer bottles and pool cues.
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10-12-2016, 10:19 PM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
(10-12-2016 09:28 PM)Fireball Wrote:  Always. The extent of the response depends on the situation. Sometimes just giving your assailant a bloody nose is sufficient, if (s)he just walks away at that point. If the message still doesn't get through, more force is justified. The problem is, you can't depend on someone just walking away; sometimes they just won't quit. Then, it just goes on until they stop. That stopping might be permanent. I've never had to fight that far, yet. But I've been in some scrapes with broken beer bottles and pool cues.

Did you work at Patrick Swayze's Road House? Wink
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11-12-2016, 01:07 PM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
There are a lot of factors that could go into my decision as to whether or not to defend myself, and whether or not it's a case of sometimes the best defense is a game ending offense, including but not limited to my mood at the time and whether or not something about the person causes me to feel empathy, as well as relevant law and the chances of said law being applied.

'Murican Canadian
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11-12-2016, 02:34 PM
RE: When is Self Defense Justified?
(10-12-2016 10:19 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 09:28 PM)Fireball Wrote:  Always. The extent of the response depends on the situation. Sometimes just giving your assailant a bloody nose is sufficient, if (s)he just walks away at that point. If the message still doesn't get through, more force is justified. The problem is, you can't depend on someone just walking away; sometimes they just won't quit. Then, it just goes on until they stop. That stopping might be permanent. I've never had to fight that far, yet. But I've been in some scrapes with broken beer bottles and pool cues.

Did you work at Patrick Swayze's Road House? Wink

Nope, just dives in Navy towns.
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