When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
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15-09-2014, 12:25 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(15-09-2014 11:38 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I'm not sure if it's been brought up in here yet, but I find the whole "Don't hit girls because they're weaker than you" thing insulting as all hell.

Seriously, if we're going that way it should be "Don't hit people that are clearly weaker than you", because as is it gives off the implication that women are always very weak and no matter what they do they'll never stop being so. That's not just insulting, that's illogical. It also gives the impression all men are strong, and that's blatantly not true and unfair to themmoo

Plus, it's always "don't hit a girl". "Hit." I don't know about anyone else, but I don't exactly think epic beat downs that result in hospital visits when I hear that word. I think a hit. We are so pathetic, if any amount of force is applied to our bodies, we'll just break down, either mentally or physically, or even both cause we just suck that much, apparently.

Dodgy

I understand what you're saying and unilaterally saying all females are weaker can send a strong message. Being a feminist I can appreciate that.
But I believe this topic to be more about physical strength. Maybe I'm just being old fashioned.

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15-09-2014, 12:36 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(15-09-2014 12:25 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 11:38 AM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I'm not sure if it's been brought up in here yet, but I find the whole "Don't hit girls because they're weaker than you" thing insulting as all hell.

Seriously, if we're going that way it should be "Don't hit people that are clearly weaker than you", because as is it gives off the implication that women are always very weak and no matter what they do they'll never stop being so. That's not just insulting, that's illogical. It also gives the impression all men are strong, and that's blatantly not true and unfair to themmoo

Plus, it's always "don't hit a girl". "Hit." I don't know about anyone else, but I don't exactly think epic beat downs that result in hospital visits when I hear that word. I think a hit. We are so pathetic, if any amount of force is applied to our bodies, we'll just break down, either mentally or physically, or even both cause we just suck that much, apparently.

Dodgy

I understand what you're saying and unilaterally saying all females are weaker can send a strong message. Being a feminist I can appreciate that.
But I believe this topic to be more about physical strength. Maybe I'm just being old fashioned.

I am talking about averages and upper body strength. Sexual dimorphism is real. Men on average are bigger and stronger than Women (there are outliers either way) however even at the extreme end of the scale the worlds strongest woman is weaker than the worlds strongest man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wor...ghtlifting

Men
Quote:Snatch 214 kg Behdad Salimi Iran 13 November 2011 World Championships France Paris, France [6]

Clean & Jerk 263 kg Hossein Rezazadeh Iran 25 August 2004 Olympic Games Greece Athens, Greece

Total 472 kg Hossein Rezazadeh Iran 26 September 2000 Olympic Games Australia Sydney, Australia


Women
Quote:Snatch 151 kg Tatiana Kashirina Russia 5 August 2012 Olympic Games United Kingdom London, United Kingdom [13]

Clean & Jerk 190 kg Tatiana Kashirina Russia 26 October 2013 World Championships Poland Wrocław, Poland [3]

Total 334 kg Tatiana Kashirina Russia 23 November 2013 President's Cup Russia Moscow, Russia [14]

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-09-2014, 12:39 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
It would be really naive to assume that there werent physical differences between men and women. O.o
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15-09-2014, 12:55 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
Yup, on average the numbers will show that men are stronger than woman. But in this thread, we are discussing in what situation is it OK for a man to hit a woman, correct? Averages don't apply to specific situations. What happens when your below average strength male is assaulted by your above average strength female? Or when a very below average strength male is assaulted by an average female? In cases where the woman does have the upper hand physically, does the rule of "never hit a woman" still apply for men? if not, then the physical strength difference obviously isn't the reason behind the choice. If it's not the difference in physical strength difference then what is it?

I think, as Sabrina said, this is about more than physical strength, because the physical strength argument doesn't apply to easily conceivable situations.

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15-09-2014, 01:04 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(15-09-2014 12:55 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Yup, on average the numbers will show that men are stronger than woman. But in this thread, we are discussing in what situation is it OK for a man to hit a woman, correct? Averages don't apply to specific situations. What happens when your below average strength male is assaulted by your above average strength female? Or when a very below average strength male is assaulted by an average female? In cases where the woman does have the upper hand physically, does the rule of "never hit a woman" still apply for men? if not, then the physical strength difference obviously isn't the reason behind the choice. If it's not the difference in physical strength difference then what is it?

Pretty much this. The rule isn't "Women tend to be a bit weaker, so be a bit cautious if you ever find yourself in a situation where you might need to hit one". The rule is "Never hit a women". Full stop. It gives a blanket rule to a situation that shouldn't have one.

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15-09-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(15-09-2014 12:36 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 12:25 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  I understand what you're saying and unilaterally saying all females are weaker can send a strong message. Being a feminist I can appreciate that.
But I believe this topic to be more about physical strength. Maybe I'm just being old fashioned.

I am talking about averages and upper body strength. Sexual dimorphism is real. Men on average are bigger and stronger than Women (there are outliers either way) however even at the extreme end of the scale the worlds strongest woman is weaker than the worlds strongest man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wor...ghtlifting

Men
Quote:Snatch 214 kg Behdad Salimi Iran 13 November 2011 World Championships France Paris, France [6]

Clean & Jerk 263 kg Hossein Rezazadeh Iran 25 August 2004 Olympic Games Greece Athens, Greece

Total 472 kg Hossein Rezazadeh Iran 26 September 2000 Olympic Games Australia Sydney, Australia


Women
Quote:Snatch 151 kg Tatiana Kashirina Russia 5 August 2012 Olympic Games United Kingdom London, United Kingdom [13]

Clean & Jerk 190 kg Tatiana Kashirina Russia 26 October 2013 World Championships Poland Wrocław, Poland [3]

Total 334 kg Tatiana Kashirina Russia 23 November 2013 President's Cup Russia Moscow, Russia [14]

The differences are going to be much more pronounced at the extreme ends.

Being 5'-8" (rounded up) it would not take much of an above average woman (average is 5'-5" for a woman) to be on equal footing physically with me.
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15-09-2014, 02:54 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
Sure, strength is gender-correlated in a bimodal distribution.

So what?

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15-09-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(15-09-2014 02:54 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Sure, strength is gender-correlated in a bimodal distribution.

So what?

That should and does factor into the perception of who is at fault when an altercation becomes physical. I'm all for don't hit anyone (under all but a few circumstances not really worth debating) but there seems to be some serious aversion to calling a spade a spade when it comes to violence against women.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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15-09-2014, 04:13 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(15-09-2014 03:38 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 02:54 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Sure, strength is gender-correlated in a bimodal distribution.

So what?

That should and does factor into the perception of who is at fault when an altercation becomes physical. I'm all for don't hit anyone (under all but a few circumstances not really worth debating) but there seems to be some serious aversion to calling a spade a spade when it comes to violence against women.


The conversation on abuse against women becomes so diluted that after awhile we're not talking about it any more.
Which is why it still gets excused and shoved under a rug

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15-09-2014, 04:33 PM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(15-09-2014 03:38 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That should and does factor into the perception of who is at fault when an altercation becomes physical. I'm all for don't hit anyone (under all but a few circumstances not really worth debating) but there seems to be some serious aversion to calling a spade a spade when it comes to violence against women.

(15-09-2014 04:13 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  The conversation on abuse against women becomes so diluted that after awhile we're not talking about it any more.
Which is why it still gets excused and shoved under a rug

I feel we may be looking at this thread differently. I'm not looking at it as, "what excuses can be used to justifiably strike a woman." I'm more looking at it as, "in an age of pursuit of equality, what are the reasons that striking a woman is worse than striking a man?" And if the reason is the physical difference, then can the same argument be made when the physical advantage is reversed? Or does it go beyond that and just relate to our culture's stereotype of women as the weaker, safer, less violent sex that needs to be taken care of by men? Is it the whole damsel in distress thing? Or does it have to do with women having an inherently higher worth than men?

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