When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
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16-09-2014, 09:21 AM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(16-09-2014 08:50 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 05:45 AM)Chas Wrote:  Nope, not always. Sometimes it is self defense.

Indeed.

If someone assaults you, then you are entitled to defend yourself. In virtually every jurisdiction on the planet.

That allowance goes only as far as preventing further harm to yourself. A disproportionate response is also assault.

I wouldn't have thought it complicated.

Not necessarily CJ.

OK, so I didn't read the whole thread but there is this thing (varies by State), that requires the victim of an attack to have a "Duty to Retreat." There is also an important consideration that is taken into account called a Disparity of Force.

If a small woman slaps a large man, she is guilty of assault. If he can retreat (and again depends on the state you live in), he cannot cold cock her because he had a duty to retreat. If he couldn't retreat, he would have to prove that there was a disparity of force as to allow him to completely cold cock her.

You are not always entitled to defend yourself in every jurisdiction because what constitutes assault and self defense changes from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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16-09-2014, 09:30 AM (This post was last modified: 16-09-2014 09:50 AM by wazzel.)
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(16-09-2014 08:50 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 05:45 AM)Chas Wrote:  Nope, not always. Sometimes it is self defense.

Indeed.

If someone assaults you, then you are entitled to defend yourself. In virtually every jurisdiction on the planet.

That allowance goes only as far as preventing further harm to yourself. A disproportionate response is also assault.

I wouldn't have thought it complicated.
It is not, it is just an emotional and touchy subject. Our stereotypes about men and women go a long way in framing the conversation.

This is not an abuse case, but did anyone else catch the story about the woman (23) that jumped a guy (17) because he was flying some sort of model drone at the beach? When the cops showed up, she claimed assault and the only thing that kept the guy from going to jail was he had managed to record the assault on his phone. I think it was in New Jersey. She had jumped him while he was on the ground and had gotten on top of him. This would be an example of when I would consider it OK to hit a woman.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...-1.1823620
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16-09-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(16-09-2014 09:21 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 08:50 AM)cjlr Wrote:  Indeed.

If someone assaults you, then you are entitled to defend yourself. In virtually every jurisdiction on the planet.

That allowance goes only as far as preventing further harm to yourself. A disproportionate response is also assault.

I wouldn't have thought it complicated.

Not necessarily CJ.

OK, so I didn't read the whole thread but there is this thing (varies by State), that requires the victim of an attack to have a "Duty to Retreat." There is also an important consideration that is taken into account called a Disparity of Force.

I acknowledge that. I specifically said a disproportionate response, which covers that ground - and as that's a subjective matter, there will inevitably be some variation of opinion between individuals and between comparable jurisdictions.

Plainly the way to deal with an altercation is to end the altercation. The easiest way to do that is to remove yourself from it. That isn't always an option.

(16-09-2014 09:21 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  If a small woman slaps a large man, she is guilty of assault. If he can retreat (and again depends on the state you live in), he cannot cold cock her because he had a duty to retreat. If he couldn't retreat, he would have to prove that there was a disparity of force as to allow him to completely cold cock her.

I'm not seeing how that's in any way contradicting what I said?

I certainly wasn't advocating knockout blows as a response to a face slap. A larger, stronger person is - all else being equal - quite capable of establishing space or restraining their assailant without that sort of escalation.

(16-09-2014 09:21 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  You are not always entitled to defend yourself in every jurisdiction because what constitutes assault and self defense changes from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

That's why I covered my ass with that "virtually". Wink

But no, I meant defense as understood by the law, but I am nonetheless not aware of any exceptions in comparable jurisdictions. If you are assaulted, you are entitled to act to prevent further harm to yourself, but you are also supposed to minimise harm to others including your assailant.

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16-09-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(16-09-2014 09:30 AM)wazzel Wrote:  It is not, it is just an emotional and touchy subject. Our stereotypes about men and women go a long way in framing the conversation.

But those stereotypes are dumb, so there's that.

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16-09-2014, 10:27 AM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(16-09-2014 10:11 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 09:30 AM)wazzel Wrote:  It is not, it is just an emotional and touchy subject. Our stereotypes about men and women go a long way in framing the conversation.

But those stereotypes are dumb, so there's that.

Yeah..... so dumb.
Cause tthose stereotypes didn't happen for any kind of reason...

Yep
Let's just scoot over abuse of women in favor of giving men yet another break.
That'll help.

*Leaves thread*

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16-09-2014, 10:38 AM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(16-09-2014 10:27 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Yep
Let's just scoot over abuse of women in favor of giving men yet another break.
That'll help.

Of course.

However, I'm fairly certain I didn't say any such thing, but if you're party to an alternate universe where I did, would you let me know? I'm curious.

(16-09-2014 10:27 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  *Leaves thread*

Oh.

Well, so much for that dialogue.

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16-09-2014, 11:19 AM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(15-09-2014 09:46 PM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(15-09-2014 08:26 PM)Li_Holodomer Wrote:  I think it's ok for a man to hit a woman in self defense. I don't know why the treatment would be different.

It's worth noting that maybe it's not the best idea for the man to hit the woman back, because if she is of a vindictive nature she could cry domestic abuse and get the guy arrested.

Maybe because him hitting her IS domestic abuse.


Sometimes. .... I just don't know WTAF is going on in the world

Well, sometimes it's NOT domestic abuse... I mean, that does happen.
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16-09-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(16-09-2014 10:27 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 10:11 AM)cjlr Wrote:  But those stereotypes are dumb, so there's that.

Yeah..... so dumb.
Cause tthose stereotypes didn't happen for any kind of reason...

Yep
Let's just scoot over abuse of women in favor of giving men yet another break.
That'll help.

*Leaves thread*

Well the stereotypes do happen, but they are not applicable in every case.

I do not recall seeing anyone that is saying self-defense only is looking to give men a pass in an abuse situation. I know I would not, even if some of my poorly worded responses look otherwise.
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16-09-2014, 11:55 AM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(16-09-2014 10:11 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 09:30 AM)wazzel Wrote:  It is not, it is just an emotional and touchy subject. Our stereotypes about men and women go a long way in framing the conversation.

But those stereotypes are dumb, so there's that.

I dunno. I don't think stereotypes are dumb. Its a little off topic but I find it interesting how no one has a problem with positive stereotypes....

I never hear a black guy complaining about the stereotype that his dick is big. I don't hear any black guys shouting at the fact that there penis is small and they don't appreciate being stereotyped like that. Drinking Beverage

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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16-09-2014, 11:56 AM
RE: When is it OK for a man to hit a woman?
(16-09-2014 11:40 AM)wazzel Wrote:  
(16-09-2014 10:27 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Yeah..... so dumb.
Cause tthose stereotypes didn't happen for any kind of reason...

Yep
Let's just scoot over abuse of women in favor of giving men yet another break.
That'll help.

*Leaves thread*

Well the stereotypes do happen, but they are not applicable in every case.

I do not recall seeing anyone that is saying self-defense only is looking to give men a pass in an abuse situation. I know I would not, even if some of my poorly worded responses look otherwise.

Thats not what a stereotype is. A stereotype is a generalization about a group of people. While it may be true for the group, it is not necessarily true for individual members of that group.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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