Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
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28-02-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
(28-02-2016 01:58 PM)pablo Wrote:  It probably just comes down to the fact that that particular cop sided more with their ideals than yours.

That's what bothers me and that's why I'd prefer a letter from the Chief Constable explaining what my rights are.

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28-02-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
(28-02-2016 02:29 PM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 01:58 PM)pablo Wrote:  It probably just comes down to the fact that that particular cop sided more with their ideals than yours.

That's what bothers me and that's why I'd prefer a letter from the Chief Constable explaining what my rights are.

It bothers me too. There never was a choice for that cop to make as long as you were both being peaceful.
I suppose you could try to push it farther up the line, but it may just cause you more headaches than anything else.
The U.S. may not be a christian nation, or founded that way, but your chances of running up against a christian cop or constable are high just by sheer numbers.
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28-02-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
(28-02-2016 02:00 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  The police were in the wrong, I wish you had fought that harder.

But awesome challenging the jovies man. Well done Big Grin

Thanks for your support.

I don't blame the Police, strangely enough. Many are poorly trained in these matters. It's not their fault. Many believe that a person is legally obliged to provide the Police with their name and address if asked, even though they haven't broken a law. You'd be surprised how many police believe this. The law is that the Police can ask but a person can legally refuse.

The Police were in the wrong, yes, but it all depends what the Jovies claimed happened and who the Police believed. It wasn't worth fighting the case there and then. It's difficult to prove that the Police were in the wrong - especially if they don't want to hear it. The Police were being reasonable and so was I. I didn't get the impression that they wanted to haul me off to the nearest station and I wasn't too keen either. Now, I can write to the Chief Constable from a place of power because I was reasonable. I tried to protest in a reasonable manner and was prevented. With a letter from the Chief Constable, the next time may be entirely different. Let's see.

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28-02-2016, 02:58 PM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
(28-02-2016 02:55 PM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 02:00 PM)Hobbitgirl Wrote:  The police were in the wrong, I wish you had fought that harder.

But awesome challenging the jovies man. Well done Big Grin

Thanks for your support.

I don't blame the Police, strangely enough. Many are poorly trained in these matters. It's not their fault. Many believe that a person is legally obliged to provide the Police with their name and address if asked, even though they haven't broken a law. You'd be surprised how many police believe this. The law is that the Police can ask but a person can legally refuse.

The Police were in the wrong, yes, but it all depends what the Jovies claimed happened and who the Police believed. It wasn't worth fighting the case there and then. It's difficult to prove that the Police were in the wrong - especially if they don't want to hear it. The Police were being reasonable and so was I. I didn't get the impression that they wanted to haul me off to the nearest station and I wasn't too keen either. Now, I can write to the Chief Constable from a place of power because I was reasonable. I tried to protest in a reasonable manner and was prevented. With a letter from the Chief Constable, the next time may be entirely different. Let's see.

Fair enough I guess. Cant blame you for not pushing it.
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28-02-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
(28-02-2016 02:50 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 02:29 PM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  That's what bothers me and that's why I'd prefer a letter from the Chief Constable explaining what my rights are.

It bothers me too. There never was a choice for that cop to make as long as you were both being peaceful.
I suppose you could try to push it farther up the line, but it may just cause you more headaches than anything else.
The U.S. may not be a christian nation, or founded that way, but your chances of running up against a christian cop or constable are high just by sheer numbers.

I'm in the UK where christardology is on the wane, thankfully. The chances of coming up against a cop that is deeply into jovie shit is rare. The chances of being into christardology isn't that high either.

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28-02-2016, 03:21 PM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
(28-02-2016 09:28 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  I posted here some time ago but stopped for various reason. I'm now back to post about one topic in particular.

I've posted it in this particular part of the forum because it seemed the most appropriate. If Mods feel that it is better moved to a different part of the forum, then I'm fine with that.

Religtards think that they have the right to extol the virtues of their particular form of religtardology in any public space that they wish to avail themselves of. I make no apologies for referring to them as religtards and their belief system as religtardology, by the way. If they feel that they have the right to disrespect the Human Race by inflicting their particular brand of un-provable, evil stupidity on it, then I reserve the right to oppose their views.

On Saturday, I was wandering through town when I was handed a copy of the watchtower. Yes, I'm aware that watchtower should be capitalised but it is not deserving of such. I challenged the two jovies to prove that god existed. They always hunt in pairs, don't they. They pointed to the babble. I pointed out that it was a circular argument. Then, I had to explain what a circular argument was, dohWeeping. They then pointed to some trees and intimated that god had created themLaughat. "So", I said, "you don't believe in evolution?" I then asked them if they had even read a science book? They responded by telling me what jesus supposedly said. I challenged them to prove that jesus existed. At this point, the senior jovie of the two told me that if I didn't leave, he would call the Police. I pointed out that this was a public space and that I was exercising my right to freedom of speech - just like they were. I also wish to point out that I had not raised my voice, nor had I invaded their personal space, nor had I sworn, nor had I gesticulated in a threatening manner and had deliberately kept my hands in my pockets. I'd been neither insulting nor threatening. On this basis, calling the Police was fine with me because CCTV would prove me right. Basically, I'd been polite but firm in my challenge of their belief system.

Although the Police were polite, they were also firm with me and asked me to vacate the area and wouldn't take no for an answer. I asked why they were allowing one group freedom of speech but were restricting my freedom? Again, they asked me to move on.

I'd be interested to hear the views of this forum.

I would have looked closely at the tin the cop wore and made a point of writing down his name and number. If he asked why I would have said I was going to report him, and done so. I did once in a similar situation. He was a Baptist preacher in a Tennessee town, and it turned out that the town's magistrate that I reported it to was an underling in that preacher's church, but I did report the cop for running me off from the preacher's presence.
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29-02-2016, 02:47 AM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
(28-02-2016 03:21 PM)DerFish Wrote:  
(28-02-2016 09:28 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  I posted here some time ago but stopped for various reason. I'm now back to post about one topic in particular.

I've posted it in this particular part of the forum because it seemed the most appropriate. If Mods feel that it is better moved to a different part of the forum, then I'm fine with that.

Religtards think that they have the right to extol the virtues of their particular form of religtardology in any public space that they wish to avail themselves of. I make no apologies for referring to them as religtards and their belief system as religtardology, by the way. If they feel that they have the right to disrespect the Human Race by inflicting their particular brand of un-provable, evil stupidity on it, then I reserve the right to oppose their views.

On Saturday, I was wandering through town when I was handed a copy of the watchtower. Yes, I'm aware that watchtower should be capitalised but it is not deserving of such. I challenged the two jovies to prove that god existed. They always hunt in pairs, don't they. They pointed to the babble. I pointed out that it was a circular argument. Then, I had to explain what a circular argument was, dohWeeping. They then pointed to some trees and intimated that god had created themLaughat. "So", I said, "you don't believe in evolution?" I then asked them if they had even read a science book? They responded by telling me what jesus supposedly said. I challenged them to prove that jesus existed. At this point, the senior jovie of the two told me that if I didn't leave, he would call the Police. I pointed out that this was a public space and that I was exercising my right to freedom of speech - just like they were. I also wish to point out that I had not raised my voice, nor had I invaded their personal space, nor had I sworn, nor had I gesticulated in a threatening manner and had deliberately kept my hands in my pockets. I'd been neither insulting nor threatening. On this basis, calling the Police was fine with me because CCTV would prove me right. Basically, I'd been polite but firm in my challenge of their belief system.

Although the Police were polite, they were also firm with me and asked me to vacate the area and wouldn't take no for an answer. I asked why they were allowing one group freedom of speech but were restricting my freedom? Again, they asked me to move on.

I'd be interested to hear the views of this forum.

I would have looked closely at the tin the cop wore and made a point of writing down his name and number. If he asked why I would have said I was going to report him, and done so. I did once in a similar situation. He was a Baptist preacher in a Tennessee town, and it turned out that the town's magistrate that I reported it to was an underling in that preacher's church, but I did report the cop for running me off from the preacher's presence.

The thing is, I want my rights as a citizen to confront these religtards. However, I also recognise that even though they are a set of fuckwits, they also have rights too. Hell, I'll even stand up for their rights - which is more that they will probably do for me. The point is, I don't want to act like a complete moron. I want to be seen as someone who engages in debate - not someone who tries to restrict their rights and foists my beliefs on them. Just because it's what they want to do, it doesn't mean that I have to respond likewise. Kicking ass and taking names wasn't the right thing to do on Saturday. I can now challenge the actions of the Police from a point of power, having acted in a reasonable manner, rather than a point of weakness had I acted unreasonably.

I'm not saying that I disagree with any of your comments or anyone else's for that matter. But, one needs to challenge them in a reasonable manner. To act in an unreasonable manner just galvanises the fuckwits' resolve.

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29-02-2016, 02:54 AM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
(29-02-2016 02:47 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  To act in an unreasonable manner just galvanises the fuckwits' resolve.

I want that on a t-shirt Big Grin

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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29-02-2016, 03:42 AM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
I've just gotten off the phone trying to talk to the local police station in order to determine what my legal rights are with regard to challenging Jovies who extol their virtues in a public place. The police said, and I quote: "We are not here to discuss the legalities of the case". I said "But I need to know so who do I talk to?". They hung up.

I should have done what I wanted to do in the first place - contact the Chief Constable.

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29-02-2016, 08:25 AM
RE: Where do Jovies rights stop and mine start?
(29-02-2016 03:42 AM)god has no twitter account Wrote:  I've just gotten off the phone trying to talk to the local police station in order to determine what my legal rights are with regard to challenging Jovies who extol their virtues in a public place. The police said, and I quote: "We are not here to discuss the legalities of the case". I said "But I need to know so who do I talk to?". They hung up.

I should have done what I wanted to do in the first place - contact the Chief Constable.

I think the actions of the police officers at the scene, while incorrect, are understandable.

They're after an easy life. They don't want confrontations on their "patch". And however right you may be, their overriding concern is to "keep the peace". Anything which they might regard as having the potential to disrupt might mean they will ask you to "move on".

It's not about rights and wrongs. It's about them avoiding trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I sympathise with your position. Far too often religious proselytizers are given a free ride, but for the most part I'm sure you'll agree that in the UK at any rate, JWs are regarded as weirdos and are there to be ignored. The fact that they resort to threatening you with the police is simply a consequence of their inability to argue coherently and cogently and an (effective) means of getting you out of the way.

Put your complaint in writing to the Chief Constable, that way it can't be ignored.

I suspect there are more effective means of annoying them if they make a habit of turning up where they do on a regular basis.

Best of luck.

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