Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
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13-05-2015, 02:21 AM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2015 02:25 AM by Shadow Fox.)
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
(12-05-2015 07:27 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  Or is there a line at all? If we define being a Christian as many Christians do and say that a Christian is a "Christ-follower", then what happens when you follow his teachings in how you conduct yourself, but don't believe a God exists (or even that Jesus existed)? Is it possible then to be both an atheist and a Christian? Are the two mutually exclusive as we tend to regard them? Where would you draw the line on this issue?

nope.

Look, Jesus never said or did anything original, period. A Christian is a particular religion that believes that Jesus is their savior and believing in them will bring them eternal happiness in some fantasy land after party after they die.

An atheist does not believe in any deities.

It does not matter how someone acts. This whole concept of Christians invented morality, and all these don't kill each other or turn the other cheek pacifist stuff is complete and utter bunk. First off, the grand majority; if not all of it, Christianity is nothing but a plagiarism of the jewish faith and has evolved over centuries to plagiarize and incorporate pagan religions, traditions, and stories as its own.

Heck, not even Jesus is an original story. He is basically just a combination of Hercules that was born of a virgin mother and a divine father "Zeus" which is the EXACT likeness of the "father" or main deity GOD. At least to those who think god is separate from Jesus. Ra was crucified and resurrected days later or something to that extent.

To say that Christians invented anything or acting in any way is copying them is just ludicrous. Just because someone said something or taught something does not mean that you are "following" their teachings if you too are doing anything they did.
This is just a pathetic way to try and devalue atheism as a viable position by saying "haha you follow jesus like I do" and than you are going to say to us, well since you already follow his teachings why don't you just accept him?

I can see right through you.


Christian = Specific religion ( or rather 30k different religions all with the same deity) that believe in Jesus ( or god) as the creator of the universe.
Atheist = I do not believe in any deity

Why does it have to be atheists? Why not a buddhist or a Islam or anyone else that does not believe that Jesus exists or believes in your deity?


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
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13-05-2015, 02:31 AM
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
(12-05-2015 07:27 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  Or is there a line at all? If we define being a Christian as many Christians do and say that a Christian is a "Christ-follower", then what happens when you follow his teachings in how you conduct yourself, but don't believe a God exists (or even that Jesus existed)? Is it possible then to be both an atheist and a Christian? Are the two mutually exclusive as we tend to regard them? Where would you draw the line on this issue?

A Christian is most accurately defined as a person who follows the Christian religion. In other words, a person who believes Jewsus was god and (supposedly) follows his 'teachings'.
Conversely, an atheist is a person who does not believe in gods.

Where exactly is the concern about lines? They are mutually exclusive terms.

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13-05-2015, 02:57 AM
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
At some times I might of said, what someone defines themselves at but after seeing polls done, I don't think that applies.

I recall a UK religiosity poll a few years ago asked people what their religious choice was, but also asked why they choose the option they choose. A stunningly lot of people chose they picked Christian because "they thought they were good people."

So it's not that they believe in Christ and God or believe they act like Jesus, just generically are a good person in whatever that means to them.

I wouldn't call someone who acts "Christ-like" a Christian as that isn't the connotation it gives. Are many Buddhist Monks no "Christ-like" in some generic way of following similar moral codes, should we call them Christians? I would not deem that to be sensible.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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13-05-2015, 04:20 AM
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
(12-05-2015 07:49 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  
(12-05-2015 07:43 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I dunno, depends on context and definitions. I consider myself Christlike in many ways, depending on one's definition of Christlike and how one interprets Jesus' actions. In the same vein, I'm nothing like Jesus, depending on context and interpretation.

But I'm no Christian, that I can tell you.

OP is vague, not sure what you're asking...

I'm essentially asking if you think atheism and Christianity are mutually exclusive and if so, how.

They are, christianity is position of belief so christians are theists, while atheism is lack of belief.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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13-05-2015, 05:59 AM
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
(12-05-2015 09:07 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  It could be argued that in the right context, keeping up the pretense is more truthful and being up front would be more deceptive.

Keeping up the pretense might be necessary, even morally justifiable, especially for those in situations where admitting atheism could result in job loss or worse or even where it would just cause unnecessary distress (e.g. a dying relative). It would not be more truthful.

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13-05-2015, 07:07 AM
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
OP, it's not that hard nor is it that deep. Just like there is a difference between being a libertarian and being a Libertarian, there is a difference between being a christian and a Christian (in reality, replace with any proper noun for a Christian denomination).

I can be a Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, etc and still be an atheist. Or I can have no affiliation to any denomination at all and still be a christian. If this isn't clear enough, then make a punit square or simply consider the options as bullets:
  • Christian that belongs to an organized church (Affiliated Christian)
  • Christian but does not belong to any church (Unaffiliated Christian)
  • Atheist but belong to an organized church (Cultural Christian and/or Closet Atheist)
  • Atheist and does not belong to any church at all (100% Secular Atheist, or simply just atheist)

That's my take.
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13-05-2015, 08:41 AM
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
(12-05-2015 07:27 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  Or is there a line at all? If we define being a Christian as many Christians do and say that a Christian is a "Christ-follower", then what happens when you follow his teachings in how you conduct yourself, but don't believe a God exists (or even that Jesus existed)? Is it possible then to be both an atheist and a Christian? Are the two mutually exclusive as we tend to regard them? Where would you draw the line on this issue?

I don't know but I don't know why anyone would want to accept their own depravity and place themselves as the standard of evil and spend their life atoning for an unearned guilt. I see that as anti-life and anti-man.

Lets say you don't believe in original sin but you want to follow the "good" parts of his message. His message is basically be a doormat. Turn the other cheek. Forgive anyone anything. Be selfless which really means be mindless. Don't worry about tomorrow, what you will eat and what you will wear. Don't be rich or successful because that is evil. It is good to be poor and meek and suffer. The greatest, most moral thing you can do is give up your life for someone else who if he wants to be moral will give it up to someone else until the last man standing has no one to sacrifice to. Don't think, don't lean on your own understanding. Don't have any concern for this life. Oh yes and lets not forget mathew 17:20, wishing makes things so. Don't look at a woman with desire or else if you do pluck out your eye.

I don't see anything of value that Jesus taught.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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13-05-2015, 09:21 AM (This post was last modified: 13-05-2015 09:45 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
(12-05-2015 07:27 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  Is it possible then to be both an atheist and a Christian?


Yes. There are Christian atheists. I think the Christian Scientists also reject both the divinity of Jesus and the concept of a postmortem preservation of identity or an afterlife.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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13-05-2015, 09:57 AM
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
It's hard for me to say there is any line. Normally when people say "Well. I'm a Christian." it means they feel they have some sort of Moral High ground. Or that they just wanted to finish the conversation because it should sum everything up. But I've meet plenty of Christians that I would not call Morally right.

When a person calls themselves a Atheist it's only an answer to one question. An Atheist can adhere to any moral code they wish. Buddhism is a form of Atheism, Satanism is a form of Atheism, and I wouldn't call myself ether of those. I'm just Commonsensei. I do things that Commonsensei would do.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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13-05-2015, 10:04 AM
RE: Where do you draw the line between atheist and Christian?
(12-05-2015 07:49 PM)BlackEyedGhost Wrote:  
(12-05-2015 07:43 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  I dunno, depends on context and definitions. I consider myself Christlike in many ways, depending on one's definition of Christlike and how one interprets Jesus' actions. In the same vein, I'm nothing like Jesus, depending on context and interpretation.

But I'm no Christian, that I can tell you.

OP is vague, not sure what you're asking...

I'm essentially asking if you think atheism and Christianity are mutually exclusive and if so, how.

One requires the belief in God, the other requires the lack of belief. Easy-peasy.

Which one is which is left as an exercise for the reader. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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