Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
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23-11-2016, 07:13 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:03 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 07:00 PM)DLJ Wrote:  *your

Drinking Beverage

intend*

Drinking Beverage

OK, I literally LOL'd at that.

Nice one.

Laugh out load

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23-11-2016, 07:15 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:10 PM)Velvet Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 07:00 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because moral values aren't merely unreasoned or arbitrarily decided upon opinions. You're equating a more serious personal decision with how people decide what their favorite pizza topping is.

Relative doesn't mean that morality equates merely with personal opinion. That's severely oversimplified.

Sorry, but it still seems like merely personal opinion to me.

Because its just a social construct ingrained, which no basis on anything objective...

People do bad things certain that they are good... and also the opposite...

So, how its not personal opinion?

By equating it merely with "personal opinion" you reduce it down to an oversimplified and incorrect interpretation.

Or to put it another way, not all opinions are equal. If we use the word "opinion" within science in the way you're using with respect to morality, then evolution is merely scientific opinion, as is plate tectonics and relativity, etc.

Moral questions aren't simple, so reducing them down to mere opinion (and making it sound arbitrary) is a gross oversimplification and a misrepresentation of other people's opinions.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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23-11-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
You're taking questions about the moral nature of doing harm to others (for instance), and framing it as though all a person uses to decide upon their moral view is a self-centered personal opinion. Humans (and some other animals) are clearly capable of considering the ramifications of actions as they relate beyond themselves.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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23-11-2016, 07:19 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:11 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 06:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Sorry DLJ. It's (haha) YOU that need to do the re-reading.

Sorry Bucky.

There is nothing in that quote that champions anything... it's an analysis / critique not an advocacy.

You are looking for your chew-toy up the wrong tree.

Dodgy

She's not a chew toy. She made stupid statements.
She IS advocating something.

Stop assuming you know my motives. You don't.

She can't even define her terms or from where they originate.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-11-2016, 07:20 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:04 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I judge people's moral actions based upon the moral philosophy they use to justify their actions. And I judge this against my own moral values in order to assess their morality as well as my own.

My moral values aren't arbitrary and aren't the same as my opinions on other subjective topics.

Well my reasoning is like that:

-There's no objective morality, and morality is a social/evolutionary construct made for increasing the likelihood that we can work as a group better and survive as an species.

Ok, so if someone says to me that cheating on your wife/husband is ok...

And I don't intuitively feel that`s the case...

What basis do I have, to the that person that she/he is wrong?

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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23-11-2016, 07:21 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:19 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 07:11 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Sorry Bucky.

There is nothing in that quote that champions anything... it's an analysis / critique not an advocacy.

You are looking for your chew-toy up the wrong tree.

Dodgy

She's not a chew toy. She made stupid statements.
She IS advocating something.

Stop assuming you know my motives. You don't.

She can't even define her terms or from where they originate.

I have to agree with BB here in that I don't know exactly what she is advocating for. All I can parse out so far is that she believes that if morality is subjective and relative, then morals are merely personal opinions as if they are arbitrarily decided upon. I'm a bit perplexed too

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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23-11-2016, 07:23 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:20 PM)Velvet Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 07:04 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I judge people's moral actions based upon the moral philosophy they use to justify their actions. And I judge this against my own moral values in order to assess their morality as well as my own.

My moral values aren't arbitrary and aren't the same as my opinions on other subjective topics.

Well my reasoning is like that:

-There's no objective morality, and morality is a social/evolutionary construct made for increasing the likelihood that we can work as a group better and survive as an species.

Ok, so if someone says to me that cheating on your wife/husband is ok...

And I don't intuitively feel that`s the case...

What basis do I have, to the that person that she/he is wrong?

Why do you not continue to question their reasoning? Why do you not ask for the arguments underpinning their moral opinion? All you know is the conclusion they've reached but you know nothing about the way that they got to it. So is it any wonder you don't "intuitively" agree with their conclusion when you don't know their reasoning?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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23-11-2016, 07:24 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
You'll never agree with anyone who holds an opinion that you don't, if you don't ask and seek to understand their reasoning.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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23-11-2016, 07:27 PM (This post was last modified: 23-11-2016 07:30 PM by Velvet.)
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:15 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  By equating it merely with "personal opinion" you reduce it down to an oversimplified and incorrect interpretation.

Or to put it another way, not all opinions are equal. If we use the word "opinion" within science in the way you're using with respect to morality, then evolution is merely scientific opinion, as is plate tectonics and relativity, etc.

Moral questions aren't simple, so reducing them down to mere opinion (and making it sound arbitrary) is a gross oversimplification and a misrepresentation of other people's opinions.

I'm sorry that I'm taking long to answer or that I'm not answering everything, its just that I'm thinking a lot about what you are saying before answering. (and I'm also tired as I researched and debated all day long)

Well, the difference is that those scientific opinions that you exemplified have evidence to support that they reflect the reality on a objective way, they are opinions of reality that happen to be supported.

I'm not trying to devaluate morality...

I just following the conclusion that if something isn't objective and is just a construct that we made so we might increase the likelihood to survive as species, then there's no really right and wrong...

There's just... this construct that points us to (hopefully) survive as a species, not to what is moraly right or wrong.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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23-11-2016, 07:28 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:00 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  ...
Relative doesn't mean that morality equates merely with personal opinion. That's severely oversimplified.

Indeed, but was that not covered in the OP when Velvet wrote:

(23-11-2016 04:11 AM)Velvet Wrote:  ...
As a honest thinker, one is forced to apply skepticism to his moral intuitious, and until he is able to find rational justification he shouldn't regard them as anything more than his personal opinion, maybe learned from culture or "infused" by natural selection.
...

Key word being "justification".

A preference or an opinion does not require a justification. Morals and ethics do.

Smile

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