Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
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11-12-2016, 03:29 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 01:26 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(11-12-2016 01:12 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Do you think everyone should kill anyone they want, anytime they want?

The reality is that anyone can attempt to kill anyone at anytime they want. This is a fact, not my opinion.

I do support killing of serial killers, members of ISIS, serial rapists, child molesters, etc, but that's only my personal preference. Some people prefer that the death penalty never be used, and that's ok, we all have our own preferences.

Do you think everyone should kill anyone they want, anytime they want? Yes or No?

If you are unable or unwilling to answer a simple yes or no question, then further discussion is pointless.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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11-12-2016, 03:42 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 12:53 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  and there is no evidence that one ought to value life over death.

This is absurd. The default condition of a living organism is "life". If you want to argue otherwise, you'll have to support that statement.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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11-12-2016, 04:31 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 03:29 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(11-12-2016 01:26 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  The reality is that anyone can attempt to kill anyone at anytime they want. This is a fact, not my opinion.

I do support killing of serial killers, members of ISIS, serial rapists, child molesters, etc, but that's only my personal preference. Some people prefer that the death penalty never be used, and that's ok, we all have our own preferences.

Do you think everyone should kill anyone they want, anytime they want? Yes or No?

If you are unable or unwilling to answer a simple yes or no question, then further discussion is pointless.

No.

However, if you were to also ask me "do you think everyone should NOT kill anyone they want, anytime they want?", the answer would also be no.

You see, I don't know of anything that people "should" do. Without a stated or known goal that is.

For example:

"If your goal is to be a vegetarian, then you shouldn't eat meat."

I have no problem with the above statement.

"If your goal is to be an omnivore, you should eat meat"

I have no problem with this statement either.

However if we make the claim "humans should not kill and eat other animal", this is where I have a problem, as there is no objective method for determining whether or not humans should eat other animals. It doesn't even really make sense to say something like that without first establishing a goal.

To put it another way, if you want to be a serial killer, then you should kill, if not then don't, etc....
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11-12-2016, 04:35 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 03:42 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(11-12-2016 12:53 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  and there is no evidence that one ought to value life over death.

This is absurd. The default condition of a living organism is "life". If you want to argue otherwise, you'll have to support that statement.

So do you think it is immoral for a person to commit suicide?

And how do you explain suicide?

It seems to me that many people have come to a point in their life where they value death over life. Even if no one has, why would you think it is impossible?
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11-12-2016, 05:59 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 04:35 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(11-12-2016 03:42 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  This is absurd. The default condition of a living organism is "life". If you want to argue otherwise, you'll have to support that statement.

So do you think it is immoral for a person to commit suicide?

Stop right there. That is not what you said originally.

Your statement was:
and there is no evidence that one ought to value life over death.

There are many possible reasons that one could have for committing suicide. But these would be reasons for suicide that would outweigh the reasons for living.

(11-12-2016 04:35 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  It seems to me that many people have come to a point in their life where they value death over life. Even if no one has, why would you think it is impossible?

I did not anywhere say that it was impossible. I said that the default condition of a living organism was life.

Do not put words in my mouth.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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11-12-2016, 06:08 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 04:31 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(11-12-2016 03:29 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Do you think everyone should kill anyone they want, anytime they want? Yes or No?

If you are unable or unwilling to answer a simple yes or no question, then further discussion is pointless.

No.

Okay.


(11-12-2016 04:31 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  However, if you were to also ask me "do you think everyone should NOT kill anyone they want, anytime they want?", the answer would also be no.

sigh.

(11-12-2016 04:31 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  You see, I don't know of anything that people "should" do. Without a stated or known goal that is.

Oh well. Enjoy.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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12-12-2016, 05:05 AM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2016 05:49 AM by Matt Finney.)
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
fatbaldhobbit,

Do you think everyone should kill any non-human animals they want, anytime they want?
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12-12-2016, 06:16 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 05:05 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  fatbaldhobbit,

Do you think everyone should kill any non-human animals they want, anytime they want?

No.

I will clarify that in that I don't think any animal, human or otherwise, should be killed without justification.

That said, I see little to gain from this conversation other than frustration.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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12-12-2016, 08:46 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 06:16 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 05:05 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  fatbaldhobbit,

Do you think everyone should kill any non-human animals they want, anytime they want?

No.

I will clarify that in that I don't think any animal, human or otherwise, should be killed without justification.

That said, I see little to gain from this conversation other than frustration.

Do you eat meat?

If not, do you think that eating meat is justifiable?
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12-12-2016, 10:36 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 02:49 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  ...
I can't think of a single preference that requires justification. What if there is no justification? Does a person have to justify eating meat to have a preference for eating meat?
...

No. And that's why I am saying that 'preference' is not synonymous with 'moral'.

(11-12-2016 02:49 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  ...
Justification is another subjective thing altogether. Opinions on justification vary widely, and there seems to no method to determine whether or not something is justified.

I was going to give you a long-winded explanation with lots of examples but you answered your own question...

(11-12-2016 04:31 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  ...
You see, I don't know of anything that people "should" do. Without a stated or known goal that is.
...

The goal being the justification.

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