Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
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12-12-2016, 10:45 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 03:42 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(11-12-2016 12:53 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  and there is no evidence that one ought to value life over death.

This is absurd. The default condition of a living organism is "life". If you want to argue otherwise, you'll have to support that statement.

The default condition here is that organisms live, not that they ought to live.

After all these decades, it seems that so many atheists still don't know the difference between an "is" and an "ought", and still believe they can derive an ought from an is.

You wonder why I have to keep beating a dead horse, because folks like you still don't apparently get it.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-12-2016, 10:49 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 08:46 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Do you eat meat?

If not, do you think that eating meat is justifiable?

I'm also curious as to who he thinking we have to justify ourselves to. Who do I have to justify why I killed an ant the other day too?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-12-2016, 11:13 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 11:30 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  I think your assertion of zero evidence goes too far. You can certainly make a rational argument over empathy being a superior preference over apathy in terms of survival and even what society individuals prefer.

In context of religious debates, a god commits genocide, I can say that that is "not preferred" or the colloquial term "wrong".

It's rather easy to compare pro-genocide vs. anti-genocide and how it relates to survival.

In this case, I think it's pointlessly pedantic.

Again you're conflating is and ought.

You can say genocide is not to optimal strategy for having as large of a population as one may like, and that it's wrong in that it not conducive to x effect. Just like abortion is not the optimal strategy for those seeking to have as many kids as possible.

But that doesn't mean we ought to avoiding doing things conducive to x effect, or that abortion is immoral.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-12-2016, 11:25 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(11-12-2016 03:29 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Do you think everyone should kill anyone they want, anytime they want? Yes or No?

I would want to live in a society where killing indiscriminately were prohibited, only because I ain't trying to get killed. That there were laws and punishments in place to prohibit such practices. I would also like to live in a society were people showered frequently, and wear deodorant, because I don't want to deal with bad odors. I would also want to live in society that discourage fast food workers for touching my food with their bare hands.

I'd wager Matt's opposition to let everyone kill whomever they want would be similar.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-12-2016, 11:26 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 10:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 08:46 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  Do you eat meat?

If not, do you think that eating meat is justifiable?

I'm also curious as to who he thinking we have to justify ourselves to. Who do I have to justify why I killed an ant the other day too?

Conduct your pseudo-science elsewhere.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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12-12-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 08:46 AM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 06:16 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  No.

I will clarify that in that I don't think any animal, human or otherwise, should be killed without justification.

That said, I see little to gain from this conversation other than frustration.

Do you eat meat?

If not, do you think that eating meat is justifiable?

I subscribe to secular/humanist ethics.
I understand and embrace that these are subjective.
I do not accept that they are merely unsupported opinion, but I'm not conversant enough to argue that point. Perhaps in the future.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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12-12-2016, 01:47 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 11:26 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 10:49 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I'm also curious as to who he thinking we have to justify ourselves to. Who do I have to justify why I killed an ant the other day too?

Conduct your pseudo-science elsewhere.

What is pseudo-science is your suggestion that one can derive an ought from is. That by the fact that organisms are living creatures, they ought to live. But clearly you don't do to well being corrected.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-12-2016, 01:48 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 11:46 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I subscribe to secular/humanist ethics.
I understand and embrace that these are subjective.
I do not accept that they are merely unsupported opinion, but I'm not conversant enough to argue that point. Perhaps in the future.

Can you provide an example of a single thing that's commonly considered subjective, that you don't see as a matter of opinion? Or is it just the subjectivity of morality that's unique in this regard?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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12-12-2016, 01:54 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 01:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 11:46 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I subscribe to secular/humanist ethics.
I understand and embrace that these are subjective.
I do not accept that they are merely unsupported opinion, but I'm not conversant enough to argue that point. Perhaps in the future.

Can you provide an example of a single thing that's commonly considered subjective, that you don't see as a matter of opinion? Or is it just the subjectivity of morality that's unique in this regard?

The electromagnetic spectrum. The definition of a species. The age of the beginning of geologic Eons, Eras, Periods, Epochs, and Ages.

Laughat

Another thread for you to spew your bile on?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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12-12-2016, 02:06 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 01:54 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 01:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Can you provide an example of a single thing that's commonly considered subjective, that you don't see as a matter of opinion? Or is it just the subjectivity of morality that's unique in this regard?

The electromagnetic spectrum. The definition of a species. The age of the beginning of geologic Eons, Eras, Periods, Epochs, and Ages.

Laughat

Another thread for you to spew your bile on?

According to the online Merriam-Webster dictionary, one of the definitions of a dog:
"a : canid; especially : a highly variable domestic mammal (Canis familiaris) closely related to the gray wolf


Is this statement factually true?

Is the statement objectively true? (Objective: of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts}

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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