Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
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12-12-2016, 05:48 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 05:04 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Clearly he can't. Drinking Beverage

So it would seem.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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12-12-2016, 09:17 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 04:09 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Urine = Roman empire toothpaste.

One wonders if they gargled?

Lead acetate = Roman empire cosmetics and artificial sweetener. Explains bunches.

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12-12-2016, 09:22 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
What was the artificial sweetener? What was it called?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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13-12-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 01:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 11:46 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I subscribe to secular/humanist ethics.
I understand and embrace that these are subjective.
I do not accept that they are merely unsupported opinion, but I'm not conversant enough to argue that point. Perhaps in the future.

Can you provide an example of a single thing that's commonly considered subjective, that you don't see as a matter of opinion? Or is it just the subjectivity of morality that's unique in this regard?

I wonder if tomato will be admitting to being wrong about anything today? Consider

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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13-12-2016, 08:36 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(12-12-2016 04:00 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 10:36 AM)DLJ Wrote:  No. And that's why I am saying that 'preference' is not synonymous with 'moral'.


I was going to give you a long-winded explanation with lots of examples but you answered your own question...


The goal being the justification.

Hi DLJ,

What happens if someone kills an ant and doesn't justify the killing to anyone?

What if someone kills a cow or a human and provides no justification?

As far as I can tell, there isn't a single action (behavior) that requires justification. Even so, again, justification is a purely subjective thing, and we will never have any kind of consensus on this. And even if everyone did agree on something, like we are justified for imprisoning serial killers for life for example, that doesn't mean it is true. Similarly, even if everyone thinks the earth is flat, it doesn't mean its flat.

DLJ, are modern humans justified in eating meat?

"Hey, everyone, let's invade Iraq"
"What's your justification?"
"Matt says I don't need one"
"Oh, OK, off you go then".

I wonder if we might be at cross-purposes regarding what we think morality is for.

Consider

(12-12-2016 09:22 PM)Banjo Wrote:  What was the artificial sweetener? What was it called?

Ancient artifacts have been discovered that reveal the advertising slogan...

Don't let your Romance grow Dull, sweeten up your love life with Dulcedo™

Smartass

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13-12-2016, 08:53 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(13-12-2016 08:06 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(12-12-2016 01:48 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Can you provide an example of a single thing that's commonly considered subjective, that you don't see as a matter of opinion? Or is it just the subjectivity of morality that's unique in this regard?

I wonder if tomato will be admitting to being wrong about anything today? Consider

Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse? It'd certainly be a first.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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13-12-2016, 08:54 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2016 08:59 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(13-12-2016 08:06 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I wonder if tomato will be admitting to being wrong about anything today? Consider

Haha, says the guy who doesn't know the difference between relative and subjective, and thinks the terms are interchangeable. Not to mention the guy who believes facts are subjective.

I'm still waiting on you admit you were wrong, that you mistakingly conflated relative with subjective.

I'm not the one whose wrong here, you are, with you sad attempts to avoid acknowledging that.

Let's play with you again:

Can you factually verifying that according to the source you cited, the definition of Agamospecies is: A species of uniparental (asexual) organisms?
Is this factually true?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-12-2016, 09:05 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(13-12-2016 08:53 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse? It'd certainly be a first.


No, I admit I'm wrong all the time. But judging that you can't even respond to your claims, and TBD doesn't know the difference between relative and subjective, this is clearly not an example of avoiding to acknowledge a correction.

The only two shuffling, and moving their feet here, failing to acknowledge their own erroneous claims here, is you two. Two fine example of delusional atheists.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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13-12-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(13-12-2016 09:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(13-12-2016 08:53 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse? It'd certainly be a first.


No, I admit I'm wrong all the time.

Not here you don't.

(13-12-2016 09:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  But judging that you can't even respond to your claims,

In the conversation I was having with Matt, I conceded that while I held a position I was unable to defend it.

In regards to your comments, I think I've made my position pretty clear.

(13-12-2016 09:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Two fine example of delusional atheists.

Of course we are. Drinking Beverage

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

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13-12-2016, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2016 04:48 PM by whateverist.)
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
Read the first four pages and the last two. I don't quite understand why anyone feels we are entitled to objective moral facts, let alone incontrovertible ones.

We come to the subject of morality not as something entirely unheard of but as a set of practices already existing in societies. We also realize that we ourselves are already competent practitioners. Suddenly, if we listen to moral objectivists, we shouldn't trust ourselves to continue in said practices unless we can lay out all the relevant moral facts. They would have us make from them a decision procedure or else feel derelict for our carelessness.

But why do we insist on a formal understanding of the 'rules' when we were already expert practitioners to begin with? Confronted for the first time with the difficulties of biped locomotion we don't immediately sit down until a formal understanding allows us to carry on walking in confidence. Digestion works the same whether we understand it or not. We all are expert practitioners of a language whether we are good grammarians or not. There are many things our organisms accomplish just fine without without our conscious possession of a formal level of understanding. Why should we demand such a thing in the case of morality?

When we learned to walk, falling down was fixed by getting back up and more practice. The same is true for morality except that falling down is always in relation to others. When we are younger, allowance is made for noobs and we are helped along in the same way we are in acquiring the language. This isn't rocket science and morality isn't in such dire straights that everyone should work to derive the underlying moral facts. As with anything else, there will be those who are curious to elaborate the formal rules of grammar just as there will others who are intrigued to do the same for morality. But nothing important hinges on the success of grammarians and moralists. This sort of obsession though interesting enough in its own way, is neither urgent nor a virtue.

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

― Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle
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