Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
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16-12-2016, 03:00 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(15-12-2016 11:18 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Some times i put my dog in scenarios that he has to figure out, problems he has to work his way out of. You can learn something about his, and animal behavior in general by observing how he goes about resolving this.

That's nice. But your dog is not what we're talking about. Nice try at changing and avoiding the SUBJECT.


Quote:Apparently the biggest insult here, ..... bla blal bla

Thanks for demonstrating EXACTLY my point. You can't help but make generalizations and grouping people you have not even met. Fucking hypocrite.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-12-2016, 04:09 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(16-12-2016 01:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(15-12-2016 09:57 PM)Stevil Wrote:  ...
I have tried to get these people to help me define what morality is, but we got nowhere other than arguing about it. People like their morality, but they don't want to define it.

Did I miss that? Which thread?

Here's mine:

Morality is ... a chemically derived, dialectically influenced, cognitive baseline of principles.

Smartass

I started it off giving my understanding of the boundaries of morality

My stab at defining morality is as per below
"Morality is the distinction between right and wrong given an event caused by a moral agent with prior knowledge of right and wrong and having been in a situation where a choice was freely made (without coercion)."
To further define some of the terms use above:
1. A moral agent is an entity which has the ability to make choices and also has knowledge of right and wrong.
2. Morality is regarding actions made via choice by a moral agent where moraly significant alternatives are present.
3. Moral judgement is made with the distinction of actions/choices between "right" and "wrong"
4. Moral obligation means that a moral agent is bound in their behaviours to do the
"right" thing.
5. Normative statements can be applied to actions (actual or potential) of other moral agents such that claims of "oughts" and "shoulds", "ought nots" and "should nots" can be made and moral judgements of the choices and actions of others can be made.
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16-12-2016, 04:18 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(15-12-2016 10:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(15-12-2016 09:57 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I just don't think that it is possible to come up with a usable and consistent definition of morality.

And...? You already indicated that your moral nihilism is not dependent on a lack of a consistent definition. Someone may come up with a particular clear, and consistent definition of that they mean by morality,
There is no consistent definition that applies to all people.
At some point an individual must choose some underlying premise, e.g. golden rule
Given any society, you are bound to have individuals with opinions that differ from the majority, the moral beliefs of one person do not necessarily apply to another person. There is no unwritten social contract, no unified moral obligation.

(15-12-2016 10:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:Sure a person can call the self imposed rules or guides they adhere to as their moral code. Great for them, but I personally don't consider that to be anything other than just made up rules and guides. As many have suggested, morals implies a collection of people rather than a single person.


Oh, okay if an individual person has their own self imposed rules and guides and calls it their moral code, it's just a bunch of made up rules and guides. But if a collection of people have the same self imposed rules and guides, it's no longer made up rules and guides?
A group is just a collection of individuals, they each have their own beliefs, there is no group think, no group belief, there is no moral authority, no discoverable moral truth.

(15-12-2016 10:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  It should also be noted that, cultures (collections of people) often share a variety of personal opinions and tastes, like standards of beauty, food, music, etc.... different than other cultures.
Cultures don't have shared personal opinions and tastes, cultures are made up of individuals, cultures have influences for sure but still fit within some sort of bell curve and include a plethora of believes and preferences.


(15-12-2016 10:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:Each person holding onto their own personal moral beliefs and imagining that it has some relevance to their soeciety and others in their society, doesn't really make any sense to me.It has no value beyond the beholder. If that is what morality is to them then great for them, but it's not what I consider to be morality.

You're not very clear here, whats the difference between one's personal moral beliefs, and the moral beliefs held by a collective group of people,
There is no such thing as moral beliefs held by a collective group. Beliefs are held by individuals.
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16-12-2016, 06:21 AM
Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(16-12-2016 04:18 AM)Stevil Wrote:  Cultures don't have shared personal opinions and tastes, cultures are made up of individuals, cultures have influences for sure but still fit within some sort of bell curve and include a plethora of believes and preferences.

Same with morality.


Quote:
There is no such thing as moral beliefs held by a collective group. Beliefs are held by individuals.

I wont even ask how you reconcile this with your previous appeals to a collection of people. Because you seemed to have veered off from your original accusations and supporting them.

You complained about me referring to non- nihilist moral views as subjective I. E. based of personal opinions feelings. You complained about me not listening to their views of not hearing them out.

You have yet to actually support this. I want to know why you think there made up rules and guidelines are not subjective. And what you particularly learned about these non- moral nihilist, from listening carefully to them, which you believe I haven't. I'm not asking you to defend your moral nihilism, just this original accusations.

So far it seems youre not able to actually support or defend this. Perhaps you just responded because you felt your friends were being treated rudely and dismissively by me, and you felt the need to speak of their behalf, though you seemingly don't know anything more about their views than I do.











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"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-12-2016, 06:29 AM
Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(16-12-2016 03:00 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Thanks for demonstrating EXACTLY my point. You can't help but make generalizations and grouping people you have not even met. Fucking hypocrite.

I hate to break it you Bucky. But you are a generalization, just like every other biological creature.

You might prefer to be special and unique, but you're not, just like Im not. You're just a cog in a wheel.






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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-12-2016, 06:32 AM
Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(16-12-2016 06:29 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 03:00 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Thanks for demonstrating EXACTLY my point. You can't help but make generalizations and grouping people you have not even met. Fucking hypocrite.

I hate to break it you Bucky. But you are a generalization, just like every other biological creature.

You might prefer to be special and unique, but you're not, just like Im not. You're just a cog in a wheel. Whose very life and movement is dictated by the determiniatic forces of the universe.






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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-12-2016, 06:52 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(16-12-2016 06:29 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I hate to break it you Bucky. But you are a generalization, just like every other biological creature.

You might prefer to be special and unique, but you're not, just like Im not. You're just a cog in a wheel.

How utterly meaningless.
"You are a generalization" is a meaningless bit of drivel, and is not a response to what I said. You really are a fool. You want to pretend you're up to this. I hate to break it to you Tomato.

You're not.

Atheists, not biological organisms is the group in question, WHICH YOU identify as special. Do try to keep up. And every time YOU specify atheists as a group different from YOURSELF, you refute your fucking self. Maybe you should consider getting a real education so you could learn how to think.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-12-2016, 07:21 AM
Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(16-12-2016 06:52 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Atheists, not biological organisms is the group in question.

That's like saying Yorkies, not dogs is the group in question. You're a group of biological organisms that self identify as "atheists".


Quote:WHICH YOU identify as special.

No, you might hold a variety of different beliefs, and have some different set of life events than I do. But you're not unique, you're just as much a biological creature as I am. Just like any two dogs might exhibit different sets of behaviors because of a difference in environment. Yet be very much like other dogs.

Quote:Do try to keep up. And every time YOU specify atheists as a group different from YOURSELF, you refute your fucking self.

If my understanding of others such as yourself was based solely on an understanding of myself that would be a problem. But it's based on a gathering of information about a variety of human beings, many I know personally and in depth, a variety of studies of human and animal behavior etc.

And no I don't consider atheists some sort of other, if I did in the past I was mistaken. There seems to be no special sauce that makes you any different that countless other biological creature.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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16-12-2016, 11:45 AM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(16-12-2016 06:21 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  You complained about me referring to non- nihilist moral views as subjective I. E. based of personal opinions feelings. You complained about me not listening to their views of not hearing them out.
The problem, Tomasia, is that you don't listen.

"complain" isn't the appropriate word.
I pointed out to you that people's moral beliefs are based on a premise, not just on a whim.

The premise might be the golden rule, or minimise suffering, or their empathy and emotions etc.
They apply that situations. If, on a whim, they go against that then they may unconsciously punish themselves with guilt. When a person drinks Pepsi instead of Coke, they don't feel guilt.
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16-12-2016, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2016 03:08 PM by Velvet.)
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
What happened here while I was away?, 20 pages Shocking

Sorry to everyone who spoke to me while I was away, vacation for me includes vacation from study and that includes reading and posting on forums Laugh out load

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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