Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
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23-11-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 06:57 PM)Velvet Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 06:48 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  That's a gross oversimplification of moral relativity to say that it's equivalent to an opinion. That's like saying that time is equivalent with opinion because of the theory of relativity.

Actually that would be like saying time is equivalent with speed because of the theory of relativity.

Setting that aside, can you elaborate on why this is a oversimplification?

Because moral values aren't merely unreasoned or arbitrarily decided upon opinions. You're equating a more serious personal decision with how people decide what their favorite pizza topping is.

Relative doesn't mean that morality equates merely with personal opinion. That's severely oversimplified.

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23-11-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 06:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 06:12 PM)DLJ Wrote:  *its

Totally wrong.
HOC taught me my its and it's. Facepalm Tongue
If you intent to say "it is", it's "it's". Its is possessive.

*your

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23-11-2016, 07:01 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 06:52 PM)Velvet Wrote:  What I mean is that we are not equipped to judge others in moral value, because we are using a relative (unsupported) opinion, to judge another relative (unsupported) opinion...

If you have no problem with judging someone acts in way that doesn't make really sense then I guess that's ok...

Complete bullshit.
If someone attacks me or my family I am TOTALLY "equipped" to judge them, as they have threatened me, and broken the law. That makes perfect sense.

I'm not the one that's crazy here. There is nothing "relative or unsupported' about survival.

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23-11-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:00 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 06:39 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Totally wrong.
HOC taught me my its and it's. Facepalm Tongue
If you intent* to say "it is", it's "it's". Its is possessive.

*your

Drinking Beverage

intend*

Drinking Beverage

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23-11-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 06:58 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 06:46 PM)Velvet Wrote:  I never said I had intrinsic values, I said that if something does not have an intrinsic value, then its morally relative... its a matter of opinion...

And you STILL have never answered the questions, hypothetical or otherwise.
You STILL have defined NOTHING and you STILL have not explained where "intrinsic values" come from and how they are different from opinions.

I'm not answering those questions because they don't question my stance, you failed to understand the subject, and you not in a position (right now) to provide anything to the debate until you understand what it is about and what my position is.

You are also rude.

But I will happily address you on the occasion that you understand my position and question something actually related to it.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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23-11-2016, 07:04 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 06:59 PM)Velvet Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 06:56 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Also, on this specific point: "If you have no problem with judging someone acts in way that doesn't make really sense then I guess that's ok..."

You have no idea how I judge someone's moral actions. Don't be arrogant and presumptuous.

Well you asked whats the problem with judging?

I said that it doesn`t necessarily have a problem, I HAVE a problem with judging in a incoherent way because I don't want to be incoherent.

Yes I have no idea how you judge someone`s moral actions, but I'm not assuming I do...

Can you tell me how you do it?

I judge people'a moral actions based upon the moral philosophy they use to justify their actions. And I judge this against my own moral values in order to assess their morality as well as my own.

My moral values aren't arbitrary and aren't the same as my opinions on other subjective topics. For instance, there is no societal or species effect on my subjective opinion about the best pizza topping or my favorite color. But there is an effect when discussing the morality of doing something that has an effect upon other people's lives. This requires a greater understanding of the dynamics of how social animals interact with one another.

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23-11-2016, 07:07 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:03 PM)Velvet Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 06:58 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  And you STILL have never answered the questions, hypothetical or otherwise.
You STILL have defined NOTHING and you STILL have not explained where "intrinsic values" come from and how they are different from opinions.

I'm not answering those questions because they don't question my stance, you failed to understand the subject, and you not in a position (right now) to provide anything to the debate until you understand what it is about and what my position is.

You are also rude.

But I will happily address you on the occasion that you understand my position and question something actually related to it.

There is nothing to *understand* about your position. The reason you won't answer is that you HAVE no answers and can't explain why you used the term you used, and what they mean, and where they come from.
You have defined nothing, you can't even tell us why you use the terms you use, and why you use them, and where and why they originate from.

I do get it. Asking people to support their nonsense is rude. Facepalm

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23-11-2016, 07:09 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
Velvet: "I'm only advocating that if we are not currently equipped to judge, then we shouldn't judge..."

I still don't see why you believe in this statement that the human species isn't currently equipped to judge. Animals judge one another all the time. Humans aren't unique from other animals in this respect. Because we clearly judge too.

This thread is a great example of judgement from literally every participant.

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23-11-2016, 07:10 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 07:00 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Because moral values aren't merely unreasoned or arbitrarily decided upon opinions. You're equating a more serious personal decision with how people decide what their favorite pizza topping is.

Relative doesn't mean that morality equates merely with personal opinion. That's severely oversimplified.

I will read the rest, wait.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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23-11-2016, 07:11 PM
RE: Where is the Basis for our Judgments?
(23-11-2016 06:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(23-11-2016 06:12 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Bucky,
Velvet is not championing objective standards.

Please go back and read the OP. You're embarrassing yourself.

Quote:Why should we be able to say something in wrong just because enough people agree?

If something isn't intrinsically wrong (and it isn't) then is not wrong at all, its just a matter of opinion...

If it is a matter of opinion how can we say someone is wrong? That person just hold a different opinion, someone is wrong for acting out of fashion? for being innovative in morality?

That means the first slave to think (or say) that slavery is a bad thing was wrong? (because at the time many people agree on it)

Sorry DLJ. It's (haha) YOU that need to do the re-reading.

Sorry Bucky.

There is nothing in that quote that champions anything... it's an analysis / critique not an advocacy.

You are looking for your chew-toy up the wrong tree.

Dodgy

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