Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
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28-04-2016, 08:53 PM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2016 08:58 PM by StehenYeathatStephen.)
Question Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
Hi, I was sent this meme (attached/linked) and was wondering what it meant and how to argue against it... Is this guy who sent the meme talking about the phylogenetic tree?

[Image: eRtAsMG.jpg]

- Appreciate any help. Thanks.
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28-04-2016, 09:11 PM
RE: Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
Consider

I'm...not actually sure what said snippet is supposed to indicate...

Perchance a more direct link so that one might peruse said site to, maybe, garner more insight into their meaning?
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28-04-2016, 09:19 PM
RE: Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
What, does it mean like this?

[Image: AAA-Tree.GIF]

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28-04-2016, 09:36 PM
RE: Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
I think that the post means to pose the question where DNA came from to begin with. Evolution as we understand it requires a mechanism for imperfect copying of an organism together with natural selection as a driver of change in the genome. But evolution requires that DNA to already be there. It is almost an argument of "irreducible complexity" that creationist/intelligent design people like to make.

We do not yet have a theory of explanation for how DNA came to exist, and how it then entered a cellular vessel to do its work. We have some good starts on how some of the base amino acids can form in pre-hitoric earth environments, but there is much left unexplained about how DNA came to be.

However the theory of evolution describes evolution of life, not its creation. Even if we were unable to ever explain or come up with a theory of the origin of life, that would have no bearing on the validity of how complexity developed via evolution.
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28-04-2016, 09:44 PM
RE: Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
DNA is just chemical bonds. Like DNA is just chemical reactions that end up building a bigger chemical reaction.

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29-04-2016, 12:03 AM
RE: Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
(28-04-2016 08:53 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  Hi, I was sent this meme (attached/linked) and was wondering what it meant and how to argue against it... Is this guy who sent the meme talking about the phylogenetic tree?

He likely doesn't know what the term "phylogenetic tree" actually means, and is just adopting the standard creationist tactic of saying stupid things that you don't really understand because it sounds vaguely impressive.

However, in fairness, the strict chemical progression from simple amino acids to operational DNA is actually one of the driving questions in the field of biochemistry. It just isn't the question that the creationists wish it to be, because it isn't a question of if it happened, but rather how.

We know it's possible, because DNA is simply chemicals, and chemicals always react in certain ways given the proper conditions. We know that the opportunity was there, because the Miller-Urey experiment, in tandem with its descendants, has established that the materials required could easily have existed. We simply don't know the details.

It's a good question, but acting as though the fact that we don't know all the details to the answer yet is a death blow for evolution or abiogenesis is just silly.

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29-04-2016, 12:24 AM (This post was last modified: 29-04-2016 12:29 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
This guy has a common misconception about evolutuion.
The misconception is that evolution does not only apply to living organisms but all material. So basically he thinks basic (even non organic) chemistry is ruled by evolution and is asking how the DNA molecule "evolved".

He is asking for a predecessor, or even evolutionary line leading to DNA.

The claim that DNA is the most complex molecule in the univers is also laughable. Has be been in all universe to check?

The very basic fallacy underlying all this is the argument from incredulity/complexity, mixed with argument from ignorance: "Its so complex, i cant fathom any other origin than *goddidit*".

Ask him for data how it was "created" instead of silly unfounded assertions how it was not created, and hell shut up soon.

P.S.: complexity is not a proof for design. As an engineer i can tell you that the best designs are simple. The better design always uses less resources to achieve the given function/goal. Now ask him what awesome design DNA is where most of the information that is contained is actually not used (much of DNA is unternally disabled).
If one however has a theory of evolution over time, then DNA which evolved and where over time some parts become "trash" or disabled...well, it supports this idea.

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29-04-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
(29-04-2016 12:24 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  This guy has a common misconception about evolutuion.
The misconception is that evolution does not only apply to living organisms but all material. So basically he thinks basic (even non organic) chemistry is ruled by evolution and is asking how the DNA molecule "evolved".

He is asking for a predecessor, or even evolutionary line leading to DNA.

The claim that DNA is the most complex molecule in the univers is also laughable. Has be been in all universe to check?

I agree, but you don't even have to search the universe, to see that DNA is far from the most complex biomolecule in living organisms on earth. An enzyme is a far more complex biomolecule, especially if it is allosterically regulated and or regulated by phosphorylation. DNA, is petty simple. Even a creationist could take a sense fragment and the complimentary anti-sense fragment and combine them to form the double stranded DNA. In contrast, picking the right sequence of amino acids that would fold into an ordered structure, yet alone one that could catalyze the specific reaction you would want to catalyze with a given Km and which could be activated or inactivated by binding a molecule allosterically is a much much more complex problem.
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03-07-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
You can take the DNA from every animal on the planet and construct a phylogenetic tree and guess what, it will match the phylogenetic tree you can make from comparative anatomy, embryology, and any other independent field from which you can classify an animal.

The result of slowly changing DNA is expressed physically in the life forms it builds.

When we say a giraffe evolved a longer neck over time, what we mean is the DNA of the giraffe changed over time.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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03-07-2016, 06:17 AM
RE: Where is the evolution tree for DNA?
Goddidit!
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