Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
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15-10-2013, 02:24 PM
Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
Is there a good place that I can go to that will show the problems with the various bible "prophesies", and especially the "messianic prophesies" that Jesus was supposed to fill [all of them]? I already know a few, such as . . . "there was no census taken that would have caused Joseph to go to Bethleham", as a "prophesy fulfillment".

Maybe Seth needs to do a show on this topic. It gets brought up a LOT by christians who use it as a way to "show that their religion is true".
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15-10-2013, 03:28 PM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2013 03:34 PM by RobbyPants.)
RE: Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
Here are 231 failed prophesies in the Bible.

Here is Rational Wiki's article on it.

Edit:
I just realized I totally misread what you wanted. Well, one good argument is the difference between Mark, Matthew, and Luke. Mark was written first, but is full of historical and factual inaccuracies. Luke borrowed heavily from Mark and made many historical corrections. Matthew also borrowed heavily from Mark and pitched his Gospel to a Jewish audience. He read backward into the Old Testament to find various prophesies and wrote them into his Gospel to "fulfill" those prophesies. This is why you only find these references (such as being born in Bethlehem) in Matthew.

Here is Rational Wiki's article on the Gospel of Matthew.
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15-10-2013, 03:45 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2013 09:41 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
Why play their stupid game at all ?
The role of a "prophet", in ancient Hebrew culture was not to be a fortune teller.
In fact it, (divination, and fortune telling) was forbidden.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278
They can't prove that what was written into the gospels wasn't put there intentionally, to MAKE it look like prophecies were fulfilled.
Look at the bigger picture. What was the role of a messiah ? To restore the political kingdom. Did that happen ?
Game over.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-10-2013, 04:19 PM
RE: Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
(15-10-2013 03:45 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The role of a "prophet", in ancient Hebrew culture was not to be a fortune teller.

...and I should know, being a prophet and all. Big Grin

To give them the benefit of the doubt, it is "wondrous sign" that validates the prophet, and accurate prediction plays to the unwashed as sign... but what does 2 Thessalonians say? Consider

Depends how far one wishes to submerge into that theological morass; but for the most part these arguments follow a simple outline:

Theist: Fulfilled prophecy validates the Bible.
Atheist: Look at this list of failed prophecies:
Theist: (fingers in ears) la la-la la la-la-la
Atheist: Prescience is not the role of the prophet...
Theist: I cannot hear you!

And we can use the above - cause you know this is gonna happen - to say, "see? Prophecy fulfilled. Checkmate atheists!!!lol"

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15-10-2013, 05:29 PM
RE: Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
I agree that it is not worth it to play their game, and that there could have been a great number of ways that these "prophesies" were "fulfilled". But sometimes I would really like to say, "here's a prophesy about the messiah". . . . . "this is why it failed".

I'll look at the "231 failed prophesies of the bible". Could be an interesting read.
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15-10-2013, 07:14 PM
RE: Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
(15-10-2013 05:29 PM)DeavonReye Wrote:  I'll look at the "231 failed prophesies of the bible". Could be an interesting read.

The dictionary might also be an interesting read for you too.

Prophecy and prophesy are two different words.

prophecy is a noun, it means a prediction (pronounced proff-ess-ee)
prophesy is a verb, it means the act of making a prediction (pronounded proff-ess-eye).

If a religious person made this error then I bet many of the people here would be all over it calling him/her "stupid" and "ignorant". So you want to school some Christian on failed prophecies but you don't know the difference between "prophecy" and "prophesy"? Well done.

I'm more than happy to be the condescending, arrogant asshole in cases like this because the double-standards in this forum (and others) are perverse. Learn to take your own bitter medicine DeavonRey, don't start hissing and moaning like some old, ugly and unfucked street whore.
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15-10-2013, 07:52 PM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2013 08:17 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
Lovely old troll. He just can't help himself. Speaking of double standards,
when his repeated spelling errors are pointed out, they're "cheap points", but he feels perfectly free to ream someone for the same thing.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-10-2013, 08:48 PM
RE: Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
(15-10-2013 07:52 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Lovely old troll. He just can't help himself. Speaking of double standards,
when his repeated spelling errors are pointed out, they're "cheap points", but he feels perfectly free to ream someone for the same thing.

A typographic error is a special type of spelling error. Prophesy/prophecy is not a typographic error and it is more than a spelling error, it is a spelling error as well as a conceptual confusion.

You jump on me for typographic errors, e.g. missing letters, transpositions, adjacent key letters. That is cheap point scoring. That is the level at which you operate because you are unable to engage me at the level of argument and evidence. My typing is sometimes very poor and I don't use automated spellchecking but I can spell and I know the difference between prophecy and prophesy. That you need to resort to picking out typographic errors is a testimony to the quality of my argumentation and evidence. I can shit on you from a great height and I can do so with aplomb (see here for an example).
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15-10-2013, 10:06 PM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2013 10:28 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
(15-10-2013 08:48 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(15-10-2013 07:52 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Lovely old troll. He just can't help himself. Speaking of double standards,
when his repeated spelling errors are pointed out, they're "cheap points", but he feels perfectly free to ream someone for the same thing.

A typographic error is a special type of spelling error. Prophesy/prophecy is not a typographic error and it is more than a spelling error, it is a spelling error as well as a conceptual confusion.

You jump on me for typographic errors, e.g. missing letters, transpositions, adjacent key letters. That is cheap point scoring. That is the level at which you operate because you are unable to engage me at the level of argument and evidence. My typing is sometimes very poor and I don't use automated spellchecking but I can spell and I know the difference between prophecy and prophesy. That you need to resort to picking out typographic errors is a testimony to the quality of my argumentation and evidence. I can shit on you from a great height and I can do so with aplomb (see here for an example).

Yes, so you (need to) keep pointing out. That's is about all you can do. Shit from your self proclaimed "great height". Clearly you NEED to keep pointing out how superior you are. Your spelling errors were repeated examples of the SAME error. That hardly qualifies as "typos". BTW, "spell checking" has a space between the words. Maybe you should consult a dictionary, and "learn to take your own bitter medicine, Chippy Dippy, and don't start hissing and moaning like some old, ugly and unfucked street whore".

As for "engaging with you"...fat chance. Just chalk it up to your superiority, your holiness. Don't you have some a new list to make, for tomorrow's "approved atheology" (snort) topics to get ready. Now be a good troll, and do your (self-assigned) little chore.

The question in the Economics thread was "Can economic models predict the economy ?".
The Nobel Committee gave the prize this week to three economists who proved exactly, that they can.
If you don't like it, take up with them, and the Committee. I'm sure you think you know more than they do. Perhaps you can educate them all.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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15-10-2013, 11:50 PM
RE: Where to find good arguments against "bible prophesy", "messianic prophesy"?
(15-10-2013 10:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Your spelling errors were repeated examples of the SAME error. That hardly qualifies as "typos".

Yes they do, a consistently missed key is consistent with typographic error. If my keyboard is awkwardly positioned because a cat wants to rest its chin on the desk then that is a typing impediment and any consequent errors are typographic errors.

Quote:BTW, "spell checking" has a space between the words.

This is exactly what I was referring to and no it doesn't.

You are wrong, wrong and wrong.

The correct two-word formulation is "spelling check".

Quote:The question in the Economics thread was "Can economic models predict the economy ?".

No, you stated emphatically that:

"The influence of all possible variables which could impact an economic decision are accounted for, mathematically."[1]

That is wrong. No econometrician claims to have accounted for "all possible variables". That is just you trying to sound educated.
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