Where will a clone get its soul?
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24-03-2013, 07:31 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2013 08:00 AM by Zat.)
Where will a clone get its soul?
When human cloning will become common practice (any day now), god will have a dilemma.

Does he grant the clone another soul?

Does he split the donor's soul in half?

Does he leave the clone soulless? (and if he does, will the clone end up in hell? in limbo? -- how about the clone's children?)

What do you think?

PS. Oh shit, I just noticed: I already started a thread like that a long time ago. Oh well, feel free to ignore.
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24-03-2013, 07:55 AM (This post was last modified: 24-03-2013 07:58 AM by PoolBoyG.)
RE: Where will a clone get its soul?
Religions that have themes of souls and spirits would say:

The body is a natural creation- it was created by the parents (or scientists in your scenario). The soul/spirit is a supernatural creation- it was created by the God(s) and embedded upon conception.

Some religions would create a distinction between the soul and spirit. One being supernatural energy that animates living things (humans, animals, trees), and the other being a separate supernatural energy unique to humans alone (the function being conciousness, morality, etc).
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24-03-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: Where will a clone get its soul?
When it comes to the idea of souls or spirits, I tend to look at the idea, not from a supernatural viewpoint but from the viewpoint of something that could be the byproduct of a living creature.

Granted we have no evidence that souls exist, but I can imagine something along these lines...

Just as our bones grow within our body, an energy structure built along the neurons of our brains may grow there as well.
I'm not making a claim that such a thing exists. I'm just imagining out loud, in much the same way theists imagine out loud in church on sundays.

In this fashion, a clone or twin or anything similar could grow a soul, (as an energy copy of the brain).
So in this way, there would be no need to "split a soul", because each soul would be formed within each body.

Again, no evidence for this. I don't believe it. I'm not making this claim. Just using my imagination.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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24-03-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: Where will a clone get its soul?
Soul. Yeah, right. Just about the most nonsensical thing in all of Christianity.

If Christians are to be believed, what is the point of a soul? God supposedly sticks on into us at conception, give or take. What does it do from there?

Guide us to our salvation? If so, then it's a piss-poor guide. 7 billion people on this planet, 7 billion souls at risk of eternal damnation. Only 2 billion Christians and even those disagree hugely on the idea of salvation, so clearly not even all 2 billion of them are saved. Maybe 1 billion saved Christians if the largest group is correct. So if the purpose of a soul is to get us safely to heaven, then about 6 out of every 7 souls are idiotically incompetent at this job. Hey, if those 6 billion souls are looking at their mortal life and knowing the flesh they inhabit is making bad choices that will condemn the eternal soul to eternal torture, you have to figure those souls are screaming at their human host, kicking and screaming and shouting and manipulating their host to do whatever it takes for salvation, and they're not being heard. That's a ridiculous system, and an omniscient God would know that.

Be our conscience, help us decide right from wrong? Fine, but Christians say that this is irrelevant to salvation, so what's the point. Good soul, bad soul, it doesn't matter. Still gonna be about 6 billion souls, most of them good people, missing out on salvation and suffering for eternity because of it. That's a ridiculous system, and an omniscient God would know that.

What else? What does it do?

The answer is, nothing. Nothing that matters in regards to our eternal salvation. The soul gets jammed into our flesh and sits there, keeping its arms and legs inside the ride at all times, silently observing, unable to really communicate with us in any meaningful manner, crossing its fingers and hoping we live the right life so that it won't have to burn in hell for eternity. That's a ridiculous system, and an omniscient God would know that.

No, we have no souls because souls as described by Christianity don't exist.

So clones won't have them either.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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24-03-2013, 11:21 AM
RE: Where will a clone get its soul?
(24-03-2013 07:31 AM)Zat Wrote:  When human cloning will become common practice (any day now), god will have a dilemma.

Does he grant the clone another soul?

Does he split the donor's soul in half?

Does he leave the clone soulless? (and if he does, will the clone end up in hell? in limbo? -- how about the clone's children?)

What do you think?

PS. Oh shit, I just noticed: I already started a thread like that a long time ago. Oh well, feel free to ignore.
How is this a new issue with cloning? Consider identical twins, that start out as one fertilized egg, but the egg splits and two babies grow out of it. (When's "ensoulment" supposed to happen, anyway? Fundies often go with fertilization of the egg, so let's stick with that.) Does the soul get split and both twins left with half a soul? Does one come out short? Or how about siamese twins, where you've got two heads and two brains but one shared body? Are there two souls there or one? Or how about genetic chimeras, which is what happens when two non-identical twin eggs kinda merge together into a single fetus partway through the gestation process? Does that person then have two souls?

The handwavy answer is "God is more than capable of dealing with the details, poof, everyone has one soul, end of story." Which works just as well for a clone as for anyone else.

A better answer is, "what's a soul, how do we verify we have one, and how can we measure whether a clone would have one?" The answers to which are "?", "We can't", and "We can't".

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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24-03-2013, 12:32 PM
RE: Where will a clone get its soul?
Mail order. Thumbsup

It's like building a better toaster. Build the capacity for consciousness, and consciousness will appear, like plugging your new toaster into the wall.

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24-03-2013, 12:35 PM
RE: Where will a clone get its soul?
(24-03-2013 11:21 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  How is this a new issue with cloning? .

You don't recognize a sarcastic question when you see one, do you?

Any number of sarcastic answers could be given, with a sense of humour, like cantor's for example.

I hope more will see the ironic side of the issue.

Once I drove a priest to distraction with this question because he did NOT see that this was NOT a serious question!

Hey, Cantor -- long time no see! Smile
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24-03-2013, 12:44 PM
RE: Where will a clone get its soul?
(24-03-2013 12:35 PM)Zat Wrote:  Hey, Cantor -- long time no see! Smile

High-five. Love ya, bro.

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24-03-2013, 04:14 PM
RE: Where will a clone get its soul?
(24-03-2013 12:32 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Mail order. Thumbsup

You are sooooo out of touch with technology HoC.
Everybody knows you can simply use your smartphone to order online, jeesh. Laughat

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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24-03-2013, 04:24 PM
RE: Where will a clone get its soul?
(24-03-2013 04:14 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(24-03-2013 12:32 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Mail order. Thumbsup

You are sooooo out of touch with technology HoC.
Everybody knows you can simply use your smartphone to order online, jeesh. Laughat
I thought that was how people inadvertently LOST their souls.

"If I ignore the alternatives, the only option is God; I ignore them; therefore God." -- The Syllogism of Fail
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