Which version of Christianity is the right one?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
26-02-2014, 10:04 PM
RE: Which version of Christianity is the right one?
(26-02-2014 08:37 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 11:40 AM)Drich Wrote:  blah blah blah...not consistant with the orginal Greek Scriptures (Any of them) blah blah blah...

Yes, the "original" Greek -- because we all know that this Jeebus character spoke Greek.

Shocking

Oh, wait...
Rolleyes
Google it and the one above. You would think you'd at least do that before you made such a statement like this one that leaves you completely open to very harsh criticism. If I were so inclined.

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-02-2014, 10:20 PM
RE: Which version of Christianity is the right one?
(26-02-2014 10:04 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 08:37 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Yes, the "original" Greek -- because we all know that this Jeebus character spoke Greek.

Shocking

Oh, wait...
Rolleyes
Google it and the one above. You would think you'd at least do that before you made such a statement like this one that leaves you completely open to very harsh criticism. If I were so inclined.

?
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-02-2014, 10:35 PM
RE: Which version of Christianity is the right one?
(26-02-2014 10:20 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 10:04 PM)Drich Wrote:  Rolleyes
Google it and the one above. You would think you'd at least do that before you made such a statement like this one that leaves you completely open to very harsh criticism. If I were so inclined.

?
The vast majority of the NT was written in the Koine Greek.(not Latin or Aramaic) I was challenging mocking bird to google it, and find out for himself before he just assumes he knows better. Because if I were like him I would have eaten his lunch after making such an elementary error like that one.

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-02-2014, 11:17 PM
RE: Which version of Christianity is the right one?
(26-02-2014 05:25 PM)toadaly Wrote:  Latin was the common language at the time the Vulgate was written. That's *why* it was translated into Latin.
ah, I see your problem now..

Latin was the common language of Rome at the time. When the bible was compiled the common language of the regions it was pulled from was Greek. This again was a power grab. By putting Latin bibles in formally Greek churches it took the word of God out of the common man's hands and placed it in the hands of a guy who answered to the guy in Rome who want supream power.


Quote:Considering that the New Testament as such, didn't even exist until the 4th century, and the Latin translation came a fairly short time afterward, it's hard to see why they would have assigned the same importance to the Greek as you are assigning it.
...because the Latin was translated for the Greek...

All of the letters that make up the NT were originally written in the Greek. Minus one or two.
The Greek texts were the orgins of the NT. Mid third century there was a call from Rome to compile all the writtings of the apstoles into one book, so the took Everything secular and religious and went through it. The put the stuff they could verify and had provenance on secular or religious in one book, but in the Latin not the orginal Greek. What is worst they did not give the orginal manuscripts back the buried them in a library under the church the build in Rome. In a library restricted to everyone except the highest ranking officials...



Quote:You're way overplaying the idea that only the church could read Latin. Everyone who was educated could read it. They were still teaching Latin in US primary schools up until about 1960 or so. It was a dead language in the sense that no-one was speaking it, but everyone who was literate could read it.
Dude, before you speak, google it. You sound like my father talking about some Nigerian prince who wants to give him a trillion dollars if he first send the price 200k for some transfer fee.

First century literacy rates durning that time period varied between 5-30% depending on how loosely you wanted to defined the term literacy. Full literacy was extremely uncommon. At the time we are speaking about the literacy rate plummeted because the empire was in shambles and was about to fall. This was know as the crisis of the 3rd century and while the church fathers could read and write very few outside high ranking governmental officials could. Durning this time even the Christians were banned from teaching people to read because the emperor Julian feared that the church fathers would inspire a uprising.

So no. you are 'Toadly' wrong here. Get it?Laugh out load

If I was 1/2 the ass you/some of your peers are I would gloat.

I will say next time just do your due diligence. It's fine to tell your friends drich doesn't know what he is talking about. I won't stop you. Just know when you bring crap like this to a discussion that [/quote]I have had 10's if not hundreds of times in the last 6 or 7 years with people way smarter than either of us, you need to bring you A game, and leave your bluffing and posturing at home.

I'm raising the bar here. If you pretend to quote something you better have it ready. If you pretend to speak for the bible or for history in general you better be ready to back up your commentary. Otherwise you like mocking bird are putting your reputations for being a 'thinking atheist' in my hands and completely at my mercy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cynwol...man_Empire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cynwol...man_Empire

The Index: A/S/K Ask Seek Knock as outlined by Luke 11:5-13
Ot Old testament
Nt New testament
H/S Holy Spirit

If you want to ask me a question feel free to Pm me or E/M me. I will not speak of it to anyone.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-02-2014, 11:50 PM
RE: Which version of Christianity is the right one?
(26-02-2014 11:17 PM)Drich Wrote:  Latin was the common language of Rome at the time. When the bible was compiled the common language of the regions it was pulled from was Greek. This again was a power grab. By putting Latin bibles in formally Greek churches it took the word of God out of the common man's hands and placed it in the hands of a guy who answered to the guy in Rome who want supream power.

...please clarify when you think this replacement of Greek texts with the Vulgate took place.


Quote:All of the letters that make up the NT were originally written in the Greek. Minus one or two.
The Greek texts were the orgins of the NT. Mid third century there was a call from Rome to compile all the writtings of the apstoles into one book, so the took Everything secular and religious and went through it. The put the stuff they could verify and had provenance on secular or religious in one book, but in the Latin not the orginal Greek.

Ugh. There simply are not enough facepalms on the planet in response to this. My god. You are so woefully ignorant of the history of the church, I wonder why I'm even wasting the time to finish this sentence - I suppose it's vanity.

No, the original NT was *NOT* written in Latin. It was compiled in 325 CE as merely a list, no-one cared what language was used, or even the precise text of any given book. It was not a commisioned work, but merely a list of authorized books. It was literally, simply the list of books in the NT, by name, and that's all. No text at all.

The Vulgate was commisioned in 382. Prior to that, certain selected texts had been translated into Latin for the convenience of Latin speakers (Vetus Latina). The dating of most of these translation is wide open - but they were not all the result of the council of Nicea.

But even after the Vulgate was completed, the Greek continued to be used *continuously up to the present day*. There was never a time when Latin was the only version used. Maybe that's true in nations dominated by the Vatican 1000 years later, but it is not generally true.

The Greek Orthodox church has existed since the first or second century, and their version of the NT has always been in Greek.

Quote:Dude, before you speak, google it. You sound like my father talking about some Nigerian prince who wants to give him a trillion dollars if he first send the price 200k for some transfer fee.

Your father appears much more intelligent than you. Hobo

Quote:First century literacy rates durning that time period varied between 5-30% depending on how loosely you wanted to defined the term literacy. Full literacy was extremely uncommon. At the time we are speaking about the literacy rate plummeted because the empire was in shambles and was about to fall. This was know as the crisis of the 3rd century and while the church fathers could read and write very few outside high ranking governmental officials could.

Smokin ...the Vulgate was written in the late 4th century, not the first, and not even the third. At any rate, literacy has been low for almost all of human history, but the masses don't have to be literate. All that's needed to undermine the idea that only the church was literate, is to show that non-church elietes were also literate, and you don't seem to deny that.

Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like toadaly's post
27-02-2014, 10:57 AM
RE: Which version of Christianity is the right one?
Depends on who you ask...
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2014, 11:30 AM
Which version of Christianity is the right one?
(26-02-2014 10:35 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 10:20 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  ?
The vast majority of the NT was written in the Koine Greek.(not Latin or Aramaic) I was challenging mocking bird to google it, and find out for himself before he just assumes he knows better. Because if I were like him I would have eaten his lunch after making such an elementary error like that one.

We know you're desperate, but you don't have to steal food.

I'm sure one of the forumites would be happy to buy you a McDonald's cheeseburger to eat between street corner rantings.

β€œIt is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes rampant.a.i.'s post
27-02-2014, 03:25 PM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2014 03:58 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Which version of Christianity is the right one?
(26-02-2014 10:35 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 10:20 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  ?
The vast majority of the NT was written in the Koine Greek.(not Latin or Aramaic) I was challenging mocking bird to google it, and find out for himself before he just assumes he knows better. Because if I were like him I would have eaten his lunch after making such an elementary error like that one.

You've got yourself in a real muddle. TM was pointing out that the gospels were originally written in Greek, which wasn't your Jeebus' native tongue. You didn't understand the flow of the conversation.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Mark Fulton's post
27-02-2014, 03:36 PM (This post was last modified: 27-02-2014 04:19 PM by Revenant77x.)
RE: Which version of Christianity is the right one?
(26-02-2014 11:17 PM)Drich Wrote:  
(26-02-2014 05:25 PM)toadaly Wrote:  Latin was the common language at the time the Vulgate was written. That's *why* it was translated into Latin.
ah, I see your problem now..

Latin was the common language of Rome at the time. When the bible was compiled the common language of the regions it was pulled from was Greek. This again was a power grab. By putting Latin bibles in formally Greek churches it took the word of God out of the common man's hands and placed it in the hands of a guy who answered to the guy in Rome who want supream power.


Quote:Considering that the New Testament as such, didn't even exist until the 4th century, and the Latin translation came a fairly short time afterward, it's hard to see why they would have assigned the same importance to the Greek as you are assigning it.
...because the Latin was translated for the Greek...

All of the letters that make up the NT were originally written in the Greek. Minus one or two.
The Greek texts were the orgins of the NT. Mid third century there was a call from Rome to compile all the writtings of the apstoles into one book, so the took Everything secular and religious and went through it. The put the stuff they could verify and had provenance on secular or religious in one book, but in the Latin not the orginal Greek. What is worst they did not give the orginal manuscripts back the buried them in a library under the church the build in Rome. In a library restricted to everyone except the highest ranking officials...



Quote:You're way overplaying the idea that only the church could read Latin. Everyone who was educated could read it. They were still teaching Latin in US primary schools up until about 1960 or so. It was a dead language in the sense that no-one was speaking it, but everyone who was literate could read it.
Dude, before you speak, google it. You sound like my father talking about some Nigerian prince who wants to give him a trillion dollars if he first send the price 200k for some transfer fee.

First century literacy rates durning that time period varied between 5-30% depending on how loosely you wanted to defined the term literacy. Full literacy was extremely uncommon. At the time we are speaking about the literacy rate plummeted because the empire was in shambles and was about to fall. This was know as the crisis of the 3rd century and while the church fathers could read and write very few outside high ranking governmental officials could. Durning this time even the Christians were banned from teaching people to read because the emperor Julian feared that the church fathers would inspire a uprising.


Re
"Mid third century there was a call from Rome to compile all the writtings of the apstoles into one book, so the took Everything secular and religious and went through it. The put the stuff they could verify and had provenance on secular or religious in one book, but in the Latin not the orginal Greek. What is worst they did not give the orginal manuscripts back the buried them in a library under the church the build in Rome. In a library restricted to everyone except the highest ranking officials... "

No wonder TM is face palming!

Apart from the poor grammar, which makes it almost illegible, its simply not true. What "stuff the(y) could verify?"
What "one book?"
Who are "the(y)?"
Who told you "they did not give the orginal manuscripts back the buried them in a library under the church the build in Rome. In a library restricted to everyone except the highest ranking officials... ? " Please cite your sources.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-02-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: Which version of Christianity is the right one?
can't get my reply to work
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: