While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
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22-05-2013, 06:46 AM
RE: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
Quote: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
......I decided to shit on science.

But the Philosophy forum comes BEFORE the science forum...
Huh

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22-05-2013, 06:54 AM
RE: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
(22-05-2013 06:38 AM)I and I Wrote:  I agree. So what are the limits to this theory of everything if it includes all physical matter. We agree that physical matter like the human brain can't be included in this everything, and I would say that most living things can't be included in this "everything" so what "everything" are they referring to?

I already explained it. The everything is all physical laws. It means having a working theory to explain all interactions of matter and energy at the lowest level.

Theoretically if you had the compute power you could simulate a universe with such a theory. One example of an application could be trying out different combinations of atoms to find high temperature superconductors and working out it's properties without having to physically create and test each one in a lab.

Like I said, reading doesn't mean understanding. Why don't you try looking at it in the intended context, cos this line of argument doesn't make you look clever. Actually more like the opposite. Especially when you charge into the thread intending to "shit" all over some of the greatest scientists and mathematicians on the planet.

Do you really think you're smarter than them? That you can see things that they haven't already thought of?

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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22-05-2013, 06:57 AM
RE: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
(22-05-2013 06:46 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
......I decided to shit on science.

But the Philosophy forum comes BEFORE the science forum...
Huh

I took the longer route...
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22-05-2013, 07:00 AM
RE: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
(22-05-2013 06:54 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(22-05-2013 06:38 AM)I and I Wrote:  I agree. So what are the limits to this theory of everything if it includes all physical matter. We agree that physical matter like the human brain can't be included in this everything, and I would say that most living things can't be included in this "everything" so what "everything" are they referring to?

I already explained it. The everything is all physical laws. It means having a working theory to explain all interactions of matter and energy at the lowest level.

Theoretically if you had the compute power you could simulate a universe with such a theory. One example of an application could be trying out different combinations of atoms to find high temperature superconductors and working out it's properties without having to physically create and test each one in a lab.

Like I said, reading doesn't mean understanding. Why don't you try looking at it in the intended context, cos this line of argument doesn't make you look clever. Actually more like the opposite. Especially when you charge into the thread intending to "shit" all over some of the greatest scientists and mathematicians on the planet.

Do you really think you're smarter than them? That you can see things that they haven't already thought of?

So the physical matter they are dealing with isn't any of the matter that make up any physical thing we come in contact with on a daily basis? They can simulate a universe of what exactly?
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22-05-2013, 07:20 AM
RE: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
(22-05-2013 07:00 AM)I and I Wrote:  So the physical matter they are dealing with isn't any of the matter that make up any physical thing we come in contact with on a daily basis?

Say what? Can anyone here make sense of this?

(22-05-2013 07:00 AM)I and I Wrote:  They can simulate a universe of what exactly?

The definition of universe: The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence.

Saying "universe of what" just doesn't make sense. We could simulate a universe like ours that runs on the same laws. It would have allot of different uses. Any scenario could be simulated in great detail and we could expect it to behave the same way for real world applications.

The simulation would be limited to small things, if you can imagine the processing requirements growing exponentially as the simulated universe gets bigger.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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22-05-2013, 07:34 AM
While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
(22-05-2013 07:20 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(22-05-2013 07:00 AM)I and I Wrote:  So the physical matter they are dealing with isn't any of the matter that make up any physical thing we come in contact with on a daily basis?

Say what? Can anyone here make sense of this?

(22-05-2013 07:00 AM)I and I Wrote:  They can simulate a universe of what exactly?

The definition of universe: The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence.

Saying "universe of what" just doesn't make sense. We could simulate a universe like ours that runs on the same laws. It would have allot of different uses. Any scenario could be simulated in great detail and we could expect it to behave the same way for real world applications.

The simulation would be limited to small things, if you can imagine the processing requirements growing exponentially as the simulated universe gets bigger.

Yeah what physical matter are in the theory of everything if according to a poster in this thread matter that make up humans are excluded from this theory? The theory of the matter of what? A broom handle? A condom wrapper? What physical matter is the theory of everything referring to?
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22-05-2013, 07:40 AM
RE: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
(22-05-2013 07:34 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(22-05-2013 07:20 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  Say what? Can anyone here make sense of this?


The definition of universe: The Universe is commonly defined as the totality of existence.

Saying "universe of what" just doesn't make sense. We could simulate a universe like ours that runs on the same laws. It would have allot of different uses. Any scenario could be simulated in great detail and we could expect it to behave the same way for real world applications.

The simulation would be limited to small things, if you can imagine the processing requirements growing exponentially as the simulated universe gets bigger.

Yeah what physical matter are in the theory of everything if according to a poster in this thread matter that make up humans are excluded from this theory? The theory of the matter of what? A broom handle? A condom wrapper? What physical matter is the theory of everything referring to?
It is a theory of everything, I just said that.

I also said that it's impractical to apply it to certain things, like the human brain.
It's definitely possible if such a theory exists.

You really aren't trying to understand. You are more interested in furthering your agenda.
What is that btw? What can you hope to gain by this?

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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22-05-2013, 08:08 AM
RE: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
(22-05-2013 07:40 AM)DeepThought Wrote:  
(22-05-2013 07:34 AM)I and I Wrote:  Yeah what physical matter are in the theory of everything if according to a poster in this thread matter that make up humans are excluded from this theory? The theory of the matter of what? A broom handle? A condom wrapper? What physical matter is the theory of everything referring to?
It is a theory of everything, I just said that.

I also said that it's impractical to apply it to certain things, like the human brain.
It's definitely possible if such a theory exists.

You really aren't trying to understand. You are more interested in furthering your agenda.
What is that btw? What can you hope to gain by this?

I am curious as to how a mathematical formula can predict the movement of matter that make up any living things as to include them in a "theory of everything". If the human brain isn't part of this theory of everything, then neither is humanity. Again that is a huge thing missing in the "theory of everything".
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22-05-2013, 08:20 AM
RE: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
btw the fact that science can't explain the brain as me and you agree on, is what the topic of the book is about in the op. The author is a scientist and attempts to show how a "mind" works and compares it to other self relating living structures. He certainly goes further than most sciences have. I posted a video of his speech describing the contents of his book.

The beginning of the book says: "Science has advanced to the point where we can precisely arrange individual atoms on a metal surface or identify peoples continents of ancestry by analyzing their hair, and yet ironically we lack a scientific understanding of how sentences in a book can refer to atoms and DNA or anything at all. This is a serious problem. Basically it means that are best science, that collection of theories that presumably come closest to explaining everything-does not include one of the most fundamental characteristic of being you and me."

Science can't even include the very minds that came up with the theory of everything into the theory of everything.


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22-05-2013, 09:25 AM
RE: While I was on my way to the Philosophy forum.....
So essentially, he's saying that we don't know what we don't know.

I fail to see how a tautology indicts the whole of physical science. Consciousness is an effect of matter and energy... an emergent property that we have yet to understand.

Philosophers are no closer to the answer to that question than hard scientists and that's fine, because it isn't the philosopher's goal to explain how consciousness works.

What exactly is your point with this, IandI? Are you asserting that the hard sciences are ineffectual because they haven't explained the most elusive phenomenon known to life?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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