Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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10-11-2015, 01:08 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 12:54 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Waste of time. He will post one of his arguments. It will be refuted. He will claim victory nonetheless. This has happened over and over again. Why would you expect him to change? You can prove him wrong 100 different ways, but he will never admit to being wrong.

You are 100% correct. But it's practice for some future discussion where it might matter. Big Grin

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10-11-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(08-11-2015 05:27 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Whatever realm that God existed in before the creation of the natural world would have to be as necessary as God himself.

What an imbecile.
IF there is a realm apart from your (fake) god, that is "as necessary as god", then god is not the creator of Reality, and the question remains, WHO created/initiated (the greater-necessary) Reality ? A greater god than yours ?

That is one of THE dumbest things I've ever heard. Ever. Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-11-2015, 02:05 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 12:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  No, actually it can't.

Yes it can. The "facts" aren't subjective, but the evidence for the facts is as subjective as it can be. Just take any court proceedings at which the jury is "hung".

Prime example.

(10-11-2015 12:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Definitions obtained after a five second google:
Evidence
The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

Made my point for me. "The available body of facts or information"....the available body of facts or information is that organisms change over time....we have evidence that this is the case...but what we dont' have evidence of is that organisms change to the magnitude that evolutionists would like to believe that it did and can...and the evidence that is used to prove the theory is rejected as valid evidence to those that don't believe in it.

That is why I said it is subjective...it is good enough for evolutionists, but not good enough for those that don't believe the theory.

(10-11-2015 12:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Scientific evidence
Scientific evidence is evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical evidence and interpretation in accordance with scientific method.

Right...and as it states, "...to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis"....if something can be disproven (countered) as false, then that would make it............SUBJECTIVE.

Because the truth can obviously NOT be countered or disproven.

(10-11-2015 12:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Empirical evidence, data, or knowledge:
Also known as sense experience, is a collective term for the knowledge or source of knowledge acquired by means of the senses, particularly by observation and experimentation.

Irrelevant.

(10-11-2015 12:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Evidence, proof, facts, etc. are all NOT subjective, by very definition.

Facts are the only thing that isn't subjective.

(10-11-2015 12:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  There is absolutely nothing in any of these that fits the definitions of facts or evidence. Every single one has been disproved, time and again.

Here's a challenge: Pick one, the best one, the evidence that convinced you or convinces you to believe. Start a thread and post your evidence.

I can do you one better. You tell me the single best refutation you have of each of those arguments. I dare you. The fact of the matter is, all of the arguments are sound/valid, and there isn't anything you can say to prove otherwise.
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10-11-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 01:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What an imbecile.
IF there is a realm apart from your (fake) god, that is "as necessary as god", then god is not the creator of Reality, and the question remains, WHO created/initiated (the greater-necessary) Reality ? A greater god than yours ?

That is one of THE dumbest things I've ever heard. Ever. Facepalm

First off, who said that God is the "creator of Reality"? I never said nor implied that...so based on such a ridiculous straw man, any conclusion that you made as a result of something I never implied is pointless.
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10-11-2015, 02:15 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 02:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 01:37 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What an imbecile.
IF there is a realm apart from your (fake) god, that is "as necessary as god", then god is not the creator of Reality, and the question remains, WHO created/initiated (the greater-necessary) Reality ? A greater god than yours ?

That is one of THE dumbest things I've ever heard. Ever. Facepalm

First off, who said that God is the "creator of Reality"? I never said nor implied that...so based on such a ridiculous straw man, any conclusion that you made as a result of something I never implied is pointless.

Any deity that is not the creator of reality is no creator-god. If god did not create reality, WHO THE FUCK DID ? (in your world). It's not a "strawman". It'[s a LOGICAL CONSEQUENCE. Why is it theists, whenever they have no answer, or are suprised by a question, either tell you you're angry, or say "it's a strawman".
Thank about it dumbo. Where DID Reality come from if your Jebus-god didn't make it ?

Pardon me. And here I thought you were a theist.
Apparently not, ....either that or you haven't a CLUE what you are even talking about.

It is STILL one of THE dumbest things anyone EVER said here.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-11-2015, 02:16 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 12:28 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Did you really just cite a fictional detective as supporting evidence for your argument? Shocking

You don't think the script writers had anything to do with the character's success?

You're gonna have to do better than that.

Fictional detective? Um, they were basing the show off of how a detective from that time would have had to solve such cases...how in the hell do you think real-life detectives were solving cases before the days of forensic science?? Laugh out load
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10-11-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 02:15 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Any deity that is not the creator of reality is no creator-god. If god ddid not create reality, WHO THE FUCK DID ? (in your world)

Pardon me. And here I thought you were a theist.
Apparently not, ....either that or you haven't a CLUE what you are even talking about.

It is STILL one of THE dumbest things anyone EVER said here.

Um, how can someone create reality, without being in pre-existing reality? Makes no sense whatsoever.

In other words, reality is a necessary condition for ANYTHING to exist, even God.

Wowwww, what a concept Big Grin
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10-11-2015, 02:24 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2015 02:28 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 02:19 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 02:15 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Any deity that is not the creator of reality is no creator-god. If god ddid not create reality, WHO THE FUCK DID ? (in your world)

Pardon me. And here I thought you were a theist.
Apparently not, ....either that or you haven't a CLUE what you are even talking about.

It is STILL one of THE dumbest things anyone EVER said here.

Um, how can someone create reality, without being in pre-existing reality? Makes no sense whatsoever.

In other words, reality is a necessary condition for ANYTHING to exist, even God.

Wowwww, what a concept Big Grin

EXACTLY. Facepalm

Thank you for single-handedly MAKING MY POINT and admitting your god is not a supreme being after all, but SUBJECT to the reality it "found" itself in.

LMAO

(hint: THAT is no God.)
Dumbass.

The question remains : "Who or what created Reality ? ". Can't be your god, now can it .... as you've just admitted.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-11-2015, 02:24 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 02:16 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 12:28 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Did you really just cite a fictional detective as supporting evidence for your argument? Shocking

You don't think the script writers had anything to do with the character's success?

You're gonna have to do better than that.

Fictional detective? Um, they were basing the show off of how a detective from that time would have had to solve such cases...how in the hell do you think real-life detectives were solving cases before the days of forensic science?? Laugh out load

They had forensic science in the 70's. I would post links and info about fingerprinting and profiling but, you don't seem to care about the facts, so I won't bother.

Again, I reiterate: You are supporting your argument with fictional characters on network tv. Not even public broadcasting, which at least attempts to be accurate/educational. You choose network tv.

Of course, considering the other "evidences" you cite, your dependence on fiction makes a bit more sense.

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10-11-2015, 02:30 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 12:59 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  One can apply the qualifier "necessary" to anything one imagines. Sparky the Wonder Unicorn is a necessary being. This is the fallacy of stipulation by contrived definition. One can attach any number of contrived qualities to anything one can imagine, but we know that according the primacy of existence principle, the imaginary is not real and does not really exists no matter how we describe it.

Then we will have to get into modal logic and possible world semantics.

Let me ask you something; this "Sparky the Wonder Unicorn"....is it omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenovlent...and does it have free will?

Yes, or no?

(10-11-2015 12:59 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I define the universe as the sum total of what exists. Therefore the universe can not have a cause.

Non sequitur.

(10-11-2015 12:59 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Such a notion would commit the fallacy of the stolen concept by asking for a cause outside of existence. This is akin to trying to lift the chair you are sitting in over your head while you are sitting in it. It can't be done.

Nonsense, based on the fact that we have philsophical and scientific evidence that the universe did in fact have begin to exist, and therefore, an external cause is absolutely positively necessary.

(10-11-2015 12:59 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I reject the necessary/ contingent dichotomy because it is based on a flawed theory of concepts. It confuses a concept with its definition. A concept, on my view, means the units it subsumes and all of their attributes. Leaving aside the man made, there is no such thing as necessary facts versus contingent facts, there are only the facts which are. Of course man made facts did not have to be, but once they are, they are.

All possible necessary truths must be actually true...you do agree with that, right?
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