Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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10-11-2015, 02:35 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2015 02:41 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 02:30 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  All possible necessary truths must be actually true...you do agree with that, right?

Nope. 100 % WRONG.
You have a sample size of ONE. This universe.
You have no clue what you're even saying.

The conditions external to this universe may or may not apply ... and you can say NOTHING about "necessary" until/unless you have evidence of the conditions which were extant apart from, or before this universe. The thread is about a realm for which there is no evidence. To use "natural observations" (from one universe) and project them onto a "realm" that does not exist in this universe is simply ridiculous, and mighty risky. They don't apply, "necessarily".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-11-2015, 03:04 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 02:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  EXACTLY. Facepalm

Thank you for single-handedly MAKING MY POINT and admitting your god is not a supreme being after all, but SUBJECT to the reality it "found" itself in.

As if being "subject" to reality is a weakness of some kind Laugh out load. Someone should inform Captain Dumbass over here that just because God is a Supreme Being, that doesn't mean he can do logically impossible shit...like creating squared circles or one-sided sticks...and he certainly can't take himself out of reality, wanna know why? Because whereever he is after he takes himself out of reality...that would also be........REALITY?

So the entire concept is illogical and self-defeating...yet you seem to think that you've somehow created this air-tight case.

But yeah, lets keep playing this game...a game which consist of you keep making stupid ass statements, and I will keep correcting you.

How about it, pal? Thumbsup
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10-11-2015, 03:13 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 12:00 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(09-11-2015 05:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  Scientific methodology results in knowledge and produces results. These silly, flawed arguments of yours provide neither.

In at least of the two arguments that I tout, science is used to support one or more of the premises regarding the argument. In other words, us apologists can use science to our benefit, and we can do it safely and without worry of any contemporary scientific discovery negating it.

Which ones? Dollars to doughnuts they misuse science. Drinking Beverage

Quote:
(09-11-2015 05:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  Arguments are not evidence;

Syllogisms that are based on truth premises, which allows the conclusion to be logically drawn from the premises is evidence. Evidence doesn't have to be physical all the time.

The problem with many of your arguments is that their premises are flawed.

Quote:But its funny you say that, though. I am a big fan of murder mysteries, and I love watching the detective show Columbo. The good thing about Columbo is, the show had its run during the 1970's, which means he was solving murder mysteries long before the CSI and forensics bullshit we see on tv today. He used good ole fashioned deductive reasoning. No fingerprints, no dna, no gun shot residue was needed.

And every case he solved, he could have formed a syllogism as to why the guy/gal was the murderer...and that was enough to convict the person.

So don't give me this nonsense about arguments isn't good evidence...because it is.

Arguments are conclusions from evidence - they do not stand on their own.

All you do is spew nonsense.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-11-2015, 03:15 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.



Don't let those gnomes and their illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions.

--Jake the Dog, Adventure Time

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10-11-2015, 03:18 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2015 03:24 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 03:04 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 02:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  EXACTLY. Facepalm

Thank you for single-handedly MAKING MY POINT and admitting your god is not a supreme being after all, but SUBJECT to the reality it "found" itself in.

As if being "subject" to reality is a weakness of some kind Laugh out load. Someone should inform Captain Dumbass over here that just because God is a Supreme Being, that doesn't mean he can do logically impossible shit...like creating squared circles or one-sided sticks...and he certainly can't take himself out of reality, wanna know why? Because whereever he is after he takes himself out of reality...that would also be........REALITY?

So the entire concept is illogical and self-defeating...yet you seem to think that you've somehow created this air-tight case.

But yeah, lets keep playing this game...a game which consist of you keep making stupid ass statements, and I will keep correcting you.

How about it, pal? Thumbsup
Nice try. Fail yet again, "Pal".

You walked yourself into a corner, and now to try to get out, you throw out irrelevant shit. You couldn't correct a two-year old, if you tried.

YOU said your god DID NOT CREATE REALITY, and I wanna know who did.
I said nothing about a god doing "logically impossible anything". (nice *strawman* snort, but I do get that the simpleton shit you are used to deal in). I want to know from where the REALITY arose that your god IS REQUIRED to exist in ? A god that "exists" is REQUIRED to participate in Reality and also does not *not exist*. As long as your stupid lame deity existed, non-existence ALSO was part of Reality .... therfore, Reality is now, and always was, larger than your stupid god. Where did Reality come from. How did your god create the conditions it MUST have to exist AT ALL ? Answer the question. If your god didn't/coundn't create it, you have a fake god.

You can't answer that, and you never will.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-11-2015, 03:19 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 03:04 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 02:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  EXACTLY. Facepalm

Thank you for single-handedly MAKING MY POINT and admitting your god is not a supreme being after all, but SUBJECT to the reality it "found" itself in.

As if being "subject" to reality is a weakness of some kind Laugh out load. Someone should inform Captain Dumbass over here that just because God is a Supreme Being, that doesn't mean he can do logically impossible shit...like creating squared circles or one-sided sticks...and he certainly can't take himself out of reality, wanna know why? Because whereever he is after he takes himself out of reality...that would also be........REALITY?

So the entire concept is illogical and self-defeating...yet you seem to think that you've somehow created this air-tight case.

But yeah, lets keep playing this game...a game which consist of you keep making stupid ass statements, and I will keep correcting you.

How about it, pal? Thumbsup

From whence came this god? What caused this god to exist? Consider

Be specific and provide evidence, not argument. Drinking Beverage

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-11-2015, 03:26 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 02:05 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 12:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  No, actually it can't.

Yes it can. The "facts" aren't subjective, but the evidence for the facts is as subjective as it can be. Just take any court proceedings at which the jury is "hung".

You are conflating facts with conclusion, evidence with argument.

Courts do not determine scientific fact, so you can drop that silly argument.

Quote:Prime example.

(10-11-2015 12:25 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Definitions obtained after a five second google:
Evidence
The available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

Made my point for me. "The available body of facts or information"....the available body of facts or information is that organisms change over time....we have evidence that this is the case...but what we dont' have evidence of is that organisms change to the magnitude that evolutionists would like to believe that it did and can...and the evidence that is used to prove the theory is rejected as valid evidence to those that don't believe in it.

No, dude, you have no evidence that there is any limit to the accumulation of changes. You can't even provide a plausible mechanism.

Quote:That is why I said it is subjective...it is good enough for evolutionists, but not good enough for those that don't believe the theory.

Evidence is not subjective - interpretation of evidence is.

Quote:I can do you one better. You tell me the single best refutation you have of each of those arguments. I dare you. The fact of the matter is, all of the arguments are sound/valid, and there isn't anything you can say to prove otherwise.

Every one of those arguments has been repeatedly shown to be fallacious. Google it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-11-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 02:05 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  the available body of facts or information is that organisms change over time....we have evidence that this is the case...but what we dont' have evidence of is that organisms change to the magnitude that evolutionists would like to believe that it did and can...and the evidence that is used to prove the theory is rejected as valid evidence to those that don't believe in it.

Yes we do. It's all around us. It's the reason EVERY university and institution in the world teaches it. You're out in the cold, on a limb, there, Pal. The fact that YOU don't get how it works is your probelem, not ours.

You REALLY should try to get a real education ... other than Bible College.

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10-11-2015, 04:41 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 02:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nope. 100 % WRONG.
You have a sample size of ONE. This universe.
You have no clue what you're even saying.

Well by all means, straighten me out, oh smart one Laugh out load

(10-11-2015 02:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The conditions external to this universe may or may not apply

They MUST apply.

(10-11-2015 02:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  ... and you can say NOTHING about "necessary" until/unless you have evidence of the conditions which were extant apart from, or before this universe.

We have a universe that began to exist. If the universe is all space, matter, energy, and time (STEM), and all STEM began to exist, then it follows that whatever gave STEM its existence could not itself be a product of a STEM. Also, whatever gave STEM its existence must have have free will to create when it created (t0).

The only being I know that has the power to create all STEM is.........GOD.

See how that works. Now you can try to offer your little miniscule refutations all you want...but you will only make yourself look silly.

(10-11-2015 02:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The thread is about a realm for which there is no evidence.

I believe that there is evidence, though.

(10-11-2015 02:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  To use "natural observations" (from one universe) and project them onto a "realm" that does not exist in this universe is simply ridiculous, and mighty risky. They don't apply, "necessarily".

You just don't get it, do ya Buck?
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10-11-2015, 05:13 PM (This post was last modified: 10-11-2015 08:33 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  They MUST apply.

Why ? Because otherwise you'll wet your theist pants ? You're like a two-year old demanding the universe (and Reality) comply with your simple-minded ideas so you can sleep at night.

And not because you say so, and you have said or given NOT ONE reason to support that baseless assertion. The ultimate nature of Reality (even in this universe) has been proven to be "non-intuitive" Your presumptions are baseless. There is no reason that the laws of THIS universe can be slapped onto anto anything else, in the absense of evidence, .... and you have none.

"They *must apply*" is no argument, dear. I realize that's what you learned in Apologetics 101 at Bible College, but you have not shown WHY that is true.

(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  We have a universe that began to exist. If the universe is all space, matter, energy, and time (STEM), and all STEM began to exist, then it follows that whatever gave STEM its existence could not itself be a product of a STEM. Also, whatever gave STEM its existence must have have free will to create when it created (t0).

You have nothing of the sort. What existed BEFORE the Big Bang, or what the conditions were that gave rise to it, are unknown at this point (see Roger Penrose ... Hawking's friend, "Cycles of Time", or apart from it is entirely conjecture.) How is it you are completely ignorant of Cosmology ?

(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  The only being I know that has the power to create all STEM is.........GOD.

Irrelevant, and you have no evidence for that assertion. An omnipotent god *could* have granted that power to robot universe makers. It's a baseless presumtion, and you have not a shred of evidence to support it. Even if a god created this universe, it is still not the source of Reality (which you have admitted). There is a Reality therefore GREATER than your universe maker. You worship a second-rate deity, it appears.

(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  See how that works. Now you can try to offer your little miniscule refutations all you want...but you will only make yourself look silly.

Nice try. YOU are the one who FAILED to tell us who created the REALITY your god (necessarily) exists in.

(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I believe that there is evidence, though.

Your beliefs are irrelevant. You have no evidence. You seem to be unaware of even the current theories in Cosmology. No one cares what you believe.

(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  You just don't get it, do ya Buck?

There's nothing to "get" here, from you. You got nothing, and you can't asnswer the basic question that was asked of you.

You're WAY out of your league here, if you think these sorts of patheic attempts at deflection constitute arguments, or, more importantly ... evidence.
It's all irrelevant anyway. FAITH is a gift of the Spirit. It's not given as a result of arguing. You're wasting your time : rationally, scientifically, AND theologically.

And BTW, the idea that a deity has "free will" is completely ludicrous. An omniscient deity KNEW what it was going to do, and was not free to do what it KNEW it wasn't going to do. Free will and creation are also ACTIONS. Actions take time. How can a god "act" if time does not exist yet. You can't use action verbs UNTIL the conditions exist in which they make sense.

You make no sense.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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