Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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10-11-2015, 07:32 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 02:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The conditions external to this universe may or may not apply

They MUST apply.

Says who? I'd ask for links to legitimate research, but we both know that you don't have that.

(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  We have a universe that began to exist. If the universe is all space, matter, energy, and time (STEM), and all STEM began to exist, then it follows that whatever gave STEM its existence could not itself be a product of a STEM.

Bullshit. Science stops at the Big Bang. Any speculation about events or conditions prior to the Big Bang is simply that: baseless, idle speculation.

(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Also, whatever gave STEM its existence must have have free will to create when it created (t0).

What the fuck? Are you cut-and-pasting William Lane Craig?

(10-11-2015 04:41 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  The only being I know that has the power to create all STEM is.........GOD.

Your knowledge, or lack thereof, means nothing. Your beliefs, your personal experiences, mean nothing. Your faith means nothing.

What can you demonstrate scientifically?

I can expound the Gospels of the Almighty Purple Space Hamster, who shit the universe into existence with a drunken sneeze, and it would have just as much authority as your babbling.

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11-11-2015, 07:30 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 07:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Says who? I'd ask for links to legitimate research, but we both know that you don't have that.

I forgot what we were even talking about right now I am too lazy to go back and see.

(10-11-2015 07:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Bullshit. Science stops at the Big Bang. Any speculation about events or conditions prior to the Big Bang is simply that: baseless, idle speculation.

If science stops at the big bang, then you can't use science as a methodology to determine what caused the big bang, right? Big Grin

(10-11-2015 07:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  What the fuck? Are you cut-and-pasting William Lane Craig?

Are you guys quoting Richard Dawkins when you spew that nonsense stuff about evolution?

(10-11-2015 07:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Your knowledge, or lack thereof, means nothing. Your beliefs, your personal experiences, mean nothing. Your faith means nothing.

Red Herring.
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11-11-2015, 07:51 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 05:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Why ? Because otherwise you'll wet your theist pants ? You're like a two-year old demanding the universe (and Reality) comply with your simple-minded ideas so you can sleep at night.

And not because you say so, and you have said or given NOT ONE reason to support that baseless assertion. The ultimate nature of Reality (even in this universe) has been proven to be "non-intuitive" Your presumptions are baseless. There is no reason that the laws of THIS universe can be slapped onto anto anything else, in the absense of evidence, .... and you have none.

"They *must apply*" is no argument, dear. I realize that's what you learned in Apologetics 101 at Bible College, but you have not shown WHY that is true.

So much for a direct refutation of what I said Laugh out load

(10-11-2015 05:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  You have nothing of the sort. What existed BEFORE the Big Bang, or what the conditions were that gave rise to it, are unknown at this point (see Roger Penrose ... Hawking's friend, "Cycles of Time", or apart from it is entirely conjecture.) How is it you are completely ignorant of Cosmology ?

No need to refer me to anything until you respond directly to what I said. I will repeat; all STEM began to exist. We know that...therefore, whatever gave STEM its existence could not itself be made up of STEM. And whatever gave STEM its existence must have also had free will, making it a PERSONAL agent.

So an entity that was outside of STEM, and has free will?? Hmmm....sounds like God to me. So, obviously, an external cause is needed, and the only being that can fit the bill is.....God.

Now, you may not like it, accept it, agree with it, or believe it...but you can't refute it or successfully negate it.

(10-11-2015 05:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Irrelevant, and you have no evidence for that assertion. An omnipotent god *could* have granted that power to robot universe makers.

But if an omnipotent granted power to robot universe makers, that would mean that God exists, right? Laugh out load

(10-11-2015 05:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It's a baseless presumtion, and you have not a shred of evidence to support it.

The universe began to exist, all STEM. If STEM began to exist, then its cause cannot itself be comprised of STEM. So any naturalistic explanation is already out of the question, unfortunately for you and your worldview Big Grin

(10-11-2015 05:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Even if a god created this universe, it is still not the source of Reality (which you have admitted). There is a Reality therefore GREATER than your universe maker. You worship a second-rate deity, it appears.

Your logic is all screwed up, Buck. Reality cannot not exist. Think of it this way, if absolutely nothing whatsoever existed in ANY realm, wouldn't that be...reality?? Why yes, it would.

That is why I am not foolish to say that God is "outside" of reality or God is the "source" of reality...because not only doesn't it make sense, but it is absolutely illogical. It defies logic.

(10-11-2015 05:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Nice try. YOU are the one who FAILED to tell us who created the REALITY your god (necessarily) exists in.

SMH.

(10-11-2015 05:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  There's nothing to "get" here, from you. You got nothing, and you can't asnswer the basic question that was asked of you.

You're WAY out of your league here, if you think these sorts of patheic attempts at deflection constitute arguments, or, more importantly ... evidence.
It's all irrelevant anyway. FAITH is a gift of the Spirit. It's not given as a result of arguing. You're wasting your time : rationally, scientifically, AND theologically.

Po' child, Po' child smh.

(10-11-2015 05:13 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  And BTW, the idea that a deity has "free will" is completely ludicrous. An omniscient deity KNEW what it was going to do, and was not free to do what it KNEW it wasn't going to do. Free will and creation are also ACTIONS. Actions take time. How can a god "act" if time does not exist yet. You can't use action verbs UNTIL the conditions exist in which they make sense.

You make no sense.

One of these days, when I am bored, I will entertain your little miniscule objections Laugh out load
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11-11-2015, 07:53 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(10-11-2015 03:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  From whence came this god? What caused this god to exist? Consider

Be specific and provide evidence, not argument. Drinking Beverage

If you have the nerve to sit there and ask "What caused God".....
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11-11-2015, 07:56 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-11-2015 07:30 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I forgot what we were even talking about right now I am too lazy to go back and see.

This is the single greatest explicit affirmation of "I am a lazy ignorant idiot" that I have ever seen.

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11-11-2015, 08:01 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-11-2015 07:51 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  So much for a direct refutation of what I said Laugh out load

Laugh your ass off. The fact is there was nothing TO refute as you didn't explain why your claim HAD to be true. Are you always this dense, or do you just laugh a lot at yourself ?

(11-11-2015 07:51 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  No need to refer me to anything until you respond directly to what I said. I will repeat; all STEM began to exist. We know that...therefore, whatever gave STEM its existence could not itself be made up of STEM. And whatever gave STEM its existence must have also had free will, making it a PERSONAL agent.

You can repeat that shit 'till you're blue in the face. You have not supported it in any way. We do not "know that", and you are no physicist. As for your personal and free will bullshit, you have failed to get to that point with any logic, You think stating/asserting something is all you have to do. It isn't. You fail.

(11-11-2015 07:51 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  But if an omnipotent granted power to robot universe makers, that would mean that God exists, right? Laugh out load

Thanks for yet again making my point. It's possible that your stupid deity did not create the universe.

(11-11-2015 07:51 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  The universe began to exist, all STEM. If STEM began to exist, then its cause cannot itself be comprised of STEM. So any naturalistic explanation is already out of the question, unfortunately for you and your worldview Big Grin

Prove it with a scientific reference. You can't.
Obviously you never took a Physics class. Tell Little Billy Craig you want your money back.

(11-11-2015 07:51 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Po' child, Po' child smh.
One of these days, when I am bored, I will entertain your little miniscule objections Laugh out load

Is not an argument.
Sure you will. So I see you really DO have nothing. You are so pathetic. All you can do is make unsupported assertions, 1/2 of which actually make atheists points for them.

Oh well. Back to the Biola drawing board. Oh wait. I doubt even they wouldn't take you.

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11-11-2015, 08:38 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-11-2015 07:53 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 03:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  From whence came this god? What caused this god to exist? Consider

Be specific and provide evidence, not argument. Drinking Beverage

If you have the nerve to sit there and ask "What caused God".....

Yeah how dare someone ask questions.

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11-11-2015, 08:44 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-11-2015 08:38 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(11-11-2015 07:53 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  If you have the nerve to sit there and ask "What caused God".....

Yeah how dare someone ask questions.

Wait; you mean we don't have to accept vapid assertions as ultimate truth?

And we can't just pull ignorant fiat definitions out of our asses to cover up the flaws in our inadequate half-baked explanations?

Well, crap. That rules out, like, every one of the theistic cosmological "theories" I've ever heard. Oh, well...

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11-11-2015, 09:49 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-11-2015 07:30 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I forgot what we were even talking about right now I am too lazy to go back and see.

I bet. That might be a clue as to your current state of ignorance. Too lazy to educate yourself.

(11-11-2015 07:30 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 07:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Bullshit. Science stops at the Big Bang. Any speculation about events or conditions prior to the Big Bang is simply that: baseless, idle speculation.

If science stops at the big bang, then you can't use science as a methodology to determine what caused the big bang, right? Big Grin

That was sloppy posting on my part. I should have said that our current state of scientific knowledge ends at the Big Bang. Our current technology and level of progress and understanding does not allow us to go back past the Big Bang.

YET.

And on a side note, I guarantee that when we do figure out the cause of the Big Bang, the people who do so will be wearing lab coats and not clerical robes.


(11-11-2015 07:30 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Are you guys quoting Richard Dawkins when you spew that nonsense stuff about evolution?
When it is applicable, yes. Depending on the nonsense we are discussing, of course. But it would be Dawkins or another expert.

(11-11-2015 07:30 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 07:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Your knowledge, or lack thereof, means nothing. Your beliefs, your personal experiences, mean nothing. Your faith means nothing.

Red Herring.

Are you just spouting terms at random?

You cited your belief as proof/evidence/justification of one of your statements. My statement is an accurate rebuttal of that.

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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11-11-2015, 10:03 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-11-2015 07:30 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-11-2015 07:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Says who? I'd ask for links to legitimate research, but we both know that you don't have that.

I forgot what we were even talking about right now I am too lazy to go back and see.

You are also too lazy to do any actual reading or thinking. Drinking Beverage

Quote:
(10-11-2015 07:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Bullshit. Science stops at the Big Bang. Any speculation about events or conditions prior to the Big Bang is simply that: baseless, idle speculation.

If science stops at the big bang, then you can't use science as a methodology to determine what caused the big bang, right? Big Grin

Current scientific knowledge stops there. The means and knowledge may come.

Quote:
(10-11-2015 07:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  What the fuck? Are you cut-and-pasting William Lane Craig?

Are you guys quoting Richard Dawkins when you spew that nonsense stuff about evolution?

Your incredulity is not an argument. It's not even an intelligent or reasonablle position.
Read a book. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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