Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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13-11-2015, 12:46 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 12:40 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(13-11-2015 12:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yet you were already just posts ago talking with great confidence upon how you KNOW what that is and isn't and what it couldn't be... yet you gave nothing but merely your presumed answer.

A God that began to exist is no God that a Christian worships.
I don't care about a Christian God, Non Christian God, or other. Plenty of people have ranges of vastly different views of Gods.
Quote:
(13-11-2015 12:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  All you really have to do is go one step further and realize, logically, all the "It Just can" special attributes you anoint this free will wielding god can come to be without the being. Because the universe & energy popping in and out in a dense existence isn't in anyway demonstrably something needing a "cause" in that manner described.

Nonsense. So basically, it popped into being uncaused, out of nothing? That is basically a position that you are advocating, right?
Poorly worded of course, but I wouldn't expect much based on the 3 last posts of yours I interacted with. Close enough for someone I don't know if they have ever read or studied anything about studied & analyzed data on this subject.

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(13-11-2015 12:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You for some reason assume these things can't be, yet no demonstration at all confirms to such a claim. That's why these theist positions are continually silly.

Everything that began to exist has a cause...the universe began to exist...therefore, the universe has a cause.

Unproven assertion. I don't get why so many keep not grasping that and argue it as definitive prove of something.

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13-11-2015, 01:17 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 12:40 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  A God that began to exist is no God that a Christian worships.

(13-11-2015 12:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  All you really have to do is go one step further and realize, logically, all the "It Just can" special attributes you anoint this free will wielding god can come to be without the being. Because the universe & energy popping in and out in a dense existence isn't in anyway demonstrably something needing a "cause" in that manner described.

Nonsense. So basically, it popped into being uncaused, out of nothing? That is basically a position that you are advocating, right?

(13-11-2015 12:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You for some reason assume these things can't be, yet no demonstration at all confirms to such a claim. That's why these theist positions are continually silly.

Everything that began to exist has a cause...the universe began to exist...therefore, the universe has a cause.

Self controditory thinking. You start with.

(13-11-2015 12:40 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  A God that began to exist is no God that a Christian worships.

Which sounds that you suggest your god is eternal. No beginning or end.

You eventually say.

(13-11-2015 12:40 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Everything that began to exist has a cause...the universe began to exist...therefore, the universe has a cause.

So if your god didn't have a beginning, he didn't begin to exist, So if he didn't begin to exist then he doesn't have a cause.

(13-11-2015 12:40 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Nonsense. So basically, it popped into being uncaused, out of nothing? That is basically a position that you are advocating, right?

You don't seem to have a problem with a god just popping into existence. Why do you have one for a universe?

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13-11-2015, 01:19 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 12:33 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(13-11-2015 12:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, special pleading. Facepalm

The argument is moronic. Drinking Beverage

That you can't see the obvious fallacy in that special pleading shows how it is that you don't understand that, or any other, refutation of those logically flawed apologists' arguments.

You don't even seem willing to try.

Well then, it is also special pleading for you to assume that God had a cause which therefore requires you to ask the question, "What caused God". Cool

So basically, you are the pot calling the kettle black (if I was actually special pleading, but I am not).

And I am not even special pleading, because I have reasons to believe that an UnCaused Cause is necessary, and that a past-eternal cause & effect chain is logically impossible.

When I made the statement, Chas, I made it based on positive background information/evidence that I have of an Uncaused Cause, so it isn't special pleading...because I am more than willing, ready, and capable presenting AND defending my position on these issues.

So the statement was made on evidence that I do have, not evidence that I don't have Big Grin

You have no evidence of an uncaused cause, you only have a logically flawed argument.

I am not claiming there is a god, so I'm not committing the fallacy of special pleading. You, on the other hand, are by terminating the infinite regress by fiat. That is the very definition of special pleading.

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13-11-2015, 01:24 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 12:40 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(13-11-2015 12:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yet you were already just posts ago talking with great confidence upon how you KNOW what that is and isn't and what it couldn't be... yet you gave nothing but merely your presumed answer.

A God that began to exist is no God that a Christian worships.

A universe that began to exist has a cause whether we have discovered it or not.
Maybe the universe is eternal as that makes the same amount of sense as your claim that your god is.

Quote:
(13-11-2015 12:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  All you really have to do is go one step further and realize, logically, all the "It Just can" special attributes you anoint this free will wielding god can come to be without the being. Because the universe & energy popping in and out in a dense existence isn't in anyway demonstrably something needing a "cause" in that manner described.

Nonsense. So basically, it popped into being uncaused, out of nothing? That is basically a position that you are advocating, right?

(13-11-2015 12:17 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You for some reason assume these things can't be, yet no demonstration at all confirms to such a claim. That's why these theist positions are continually silly.

Everything that began to exist has a cause...the universe began to exist...therefore, the universe has a cause.

Your claim is unsubstantiated. It is possible that what made this universe is eternal, but that doesn't make it a god.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-11-2015, 01:44 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  A universe that began to exist has a cause whether we have discovered it or not.

I already know that.

(13-11-2015 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Maybe the universe is eternal as that makes the same amount of sense as your claim that your god is.

Ignorance. There is no "maybe". We have both philsophical and scientific evidence that the universe began to exist. So there is no "maybes" to it.

(13-11-2015 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your claim is unsubstantiated. It is possible that what made this universe is eternal, but that doesn't make it a god.

Then what does it make it? Nature? Oh no, wait...it can't be nature, because nature is the exact thing that began to exist.

Keep the bullshit coming, Chas.
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13-11-2015, 01:46 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  You have no evidence of an uncaused cause, you only have a logically flawed argument.

I do.

(13-11-2015 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  I am not claiming there is a god, so I'm not committing the fallacy of special pleading.

You asked a loaded question, which is special pleading. Your assumption was emedded in the very question that you asked. Special pleading.

(13-11-2015 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  You, on the other hand, are by terminating the infinite regress by fiat. That is the very definition of special pleading.

Child, please.
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13-11-2015, 01:48 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 01:17 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  You don't seem to have a problem with a god just popping into existence. Why do you have one for a universe?

A God that popped into existence would be just as absurd as a universe popping into existence.
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13-11-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 01:48 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(13-11-2015 01:17 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  You don't seem to have a problem with a god just popping into existence. Why do you have one for a universe?

A God that popped into existence would be just as absurd as a universe popping into existence.

They are pretty close, but that's why we get to the point of. Why not go one step further from the level of adding assumptions to the puzzle that aren't quite known. Why think there is a god in the case and merely the universe itself.

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13-11-2015, 02:05 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 01:46 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(13-11-2015 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  You have no evidence of an uncaused cause, you only have a logically flawed argument.

I do.

Arguments are not evidence.

Quote:
(13-11-2015 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  I am not claiming there is a god, so I'm not committing the fallacy of special pleading.

You asked a loaded question, which is special pleading. Your assumption was emedded in the very question that you asked. Special pleading.

Congratulations, nitwit - you don't even understand what 'special pleading' means. Facepalm

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(13-11-2015 01:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  You, on the other hand, are by terminating the infinite regress by fiat. That is the very definition of special pleading.

Child, please.

You argue like a child, so you might want to go easy on weak insults.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-11-2015, 02:07 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(13-11-2015 01:44 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(13-11-2015 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  A universe that began to exist has a cause whether we have discovered it or not.

I already know that.

(13-11-2015 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Maybe the universe is eternal as that makes the same amount of sense as your claim that your god is.

Ignorance. There is no "maybe". We have both philsophical and scientific evidence that the universe began to exist. So there is no "maybes" to it.

(13-11-2015 01:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your claim is unsubstantiated. It is possible that what made this universe is eternal, but that doesn't make it a god.

Then what does it make it? Nature? Oh no, wait...it can't be nature, because nature is the exact thing that began to exist.

Keep the bullshit coming, Chas.

This universe appears to have begun with a big bang; that doesn't mean there haven't been prior incarnations.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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