Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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15-12-2015, 07:49 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(14-12-2015 09:54 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(14-12-2015 08:04 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  He did answer it. So did Bucky. I would suggest they try again, using smaller words, but I don't think that would help. Maybe pictures?

The very fact that you think the question has been answered goes to show your ignorance on the matter. Either you are rooting too much for the home team, or you are just flat out ignorant of the irrationality that is involved with their logic reasoning.

But nevertheless, not a good look for you, home skillet.

One teensy weensy problem with that. You forgot to say WHY the question has not been answered. Oh wait. You can't.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-12-2015, 11:11 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(15-12-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, you do not understand what an emergent property is.
Have you even looked up the term? I didn't think so.

No, you do not understand what the law of identity is. Have you looked up the logical law? I didn't think so.

(15-12-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  Water is wet.

And?

(15-12-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  Are the hydrogen atoms wet?

Are the oxygen atoms wet? Is one molecule of water wet? The wetness is an emergent property of the collection of water molecules.

First off, you are assuming that consciousness emerged in the first place. You cannot demonstrate the emergence of consciousness via natural phenomena, so to just make the blank assertion is a clear cut example of begging the question.

Second, this is an example of faulty comparison because we've identified what the parts are within the water to make the whole (water). Water can be broken down to molecular level, while consciousness can't. You can take all of the chemicals that constitute water, separate them, and have separate entities...and you can take all of the chemicals that constitute water, bring them together, and make "water" and the wetness that comes with it.

But you can't take all of the elements of human consciousness apart. You can't separate them or bring them together. That is why in the scientist analogy, the scientist can have all of the physical matter in the world at his disposal (brain, electrons, neutrons), but the missing ingredient would be the consciousness itself, which is the inner self that is not being accounted for here.
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16-12-2015, 11:36 AM (This post was last modified: 16-12-2015 12:35 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(16-12-2015 11:11 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(15-12-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, you do not understand what an emergent property is.
Have you even looked up the term? I didn't think so.

No, you do not understand what the law of identity is. Have you looked up the logical law? I didn't think so.

(15-12-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  Water is wet.

And?

(15-12-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  Are the hydrogen atoms wet?

Are the oxygen atoms wet? Is one molecule of water wet? The wetness is an emergent property of the collection of water molecules.

First off, you are assuming that consciousness emerged in the first place. You cannot demonstrate the emergence of consciousness via natural phenomena, so to just make the blank assertion is a clear cut example of begging the question.

Second, this is an example of faulty comparison because we've identified what the parts are within the water to make the whole (water). Water can be broken down to molecular level, while consciousness can't. You can take all of the chemicals that constitute water, separate them, and have separate entities...and you can take all of the chemicals that constitute water, bring them together, and make "water" and the wetness that comes with it.

But you can't take all of the elements of human consciousness apart. You can't separate them or bring them together. That is why in the scientist analogy, the scientist can have all of the physical matter in the world at his disposal (brain, electrons, neutrons), but the missing ingredient would be the consciousness itself, which is the inner self that is not being accounted for here.

Wrong again, ignorant one.
With no physical brain, consciousness NEVER emerges. EVER. It emerges ONLY when a functioning brain is present. Does it ever emerge from a knee ?
Severely damaged brains are not conscious.

Still waiting for the evidence you claimed you had for "disembodied consciousness".

You CAN "take" consciousness "apart". There are ALL KINDS of brain injuries that have all kinds of separate defects in consciousness. They are "locatable" by brain imaging. PET scans can even WATCH thoughts happening.


http://www.apa.org/action/resources/rese.../scan.aspx
http://www.mayfieldclinic.com/PE-PET.htm
http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/bra...you-decide
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5495712/six-ways-...your-brain

You really are an ignoramus.

It would REALLY help if you actually knew ANYTHING about science.
There are other conscious beings, other than humans. Bonobo apes, perhaps dolphins, to name two.
Are you trying to say that you r stupid god created them souls also, and that's what makes them conscious ?
Bwahahahahahahahahaha.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-12-2015, 12:01 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(16-12-2015 11:11 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(15-12-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, you do not understand what an emergent property is.
Have you even looked up the term? I didn't think so.

No, you do not understand what the law of identity is. Have you looked up the logical law? I didn't think so.

(15-12-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  Water is wet.

And?

(15-12-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  Are the hydrogen atoms wet?

Are the oxygen atoms wet? Is one molecule of water wet? The wetness is an emergent property of the collection of water molecules.

First off, you are assuming that consciousness emerged in the first place. You cannot demonstrate the emergence of consciousness via natural phenomena, so to just make the blank assertion is a clear cut example of begging the question.

No, I am not assuming it; I am looking at the evidence.

Quote:Second, this is an example of faulty comparison because we've identified what the parts are within the water to make the whole (water). Water can be broken down to molecular level, while consciousness can't. You can take all of the chemicals that constitute water, separate them, and have separate entities...and you can take all of the chemicals that constitute water, bring them together, and make "water" and the wetness that comes with it.

From whence came the wetness?

Quote:But you can't take all of the elements of human consciousness apart. You can't separate them or bring them together. That is why in the scientist analogy, the scientist can have all of the physical matter in the world at his disposal (brain, electrons, neutrons), but the missing ingredient would be the consciousness itself, which is the inner self that is not being accounted for here.

We can't yet. We only figured out water a couple of centuries ago.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-12-2015, 04:12 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(16-12-2015 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, I am not assuming it; I am looking at the evidence.

What evidence? Laugh out load

(16-12-2015 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  From whence came the wetness?

The wetness comes from the state of affair and/or condition of the water touching an object.

And water comes from the chemical formula H20.

Now, you tell me where did the brain come from, and where did the consciousness come from?

(16-12-2015 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  We can't yet. We only figured out water a couple of centuries ago.

And Jesus didn't return yet, either. So I guess we are both expecting something in the future, aren't we?
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16-12-2015, 05:45 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(16-12-2015 04:12 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(16-12-2015 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, I am not assuming it; I am looking at the evidence.

What evidence? Laugh out load

The findings of neuroscience. You ought to try reading, you might learn something.

Quote:
(16-12-2015 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  From whence came the wetness?

The wetness comes from the state of affair and/or condition of the water touching an object.

If that were true (it's not), then why isn't sand wet when it is touching an object?

No, you have no concept of where the wetness came from.

Quote:And water comes from the chemical formula H20.

Now, you tell me where did the brain come from, and where did the consciousness come from?

The brain evolved as every organ did.
Consciousness emerges from the complexity of the brain.

Quote:
(16-12-2015 12:01 PM)Chas Wrote:  We can't yet. We only figured out water a couple of centuries ago.

And Jesus didn't return yet, either. So I guess we are both expecting something in the future, aren't we?

There is evidence that science continually advances, that we learn more and more about the way things are.

There isn't even any conclusive evidence that Jesus even existed, let alone the rest of your incoherent myth.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-12-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  The findings of neuroscience. You ought to try reading, you might learn something.

You will only get correlation if you look into neuroscience, you won't get origins, which is what I am bitching about.

When talking about origins, science can't help ya, buddy.

(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  If that were true (it's not)

Notice you didn't explain why it isn't true Laugh out load

(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  , then why isn't sand wet when it is touching an object?

Because sand doesn't have wet making properties, water does.

(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, you have no concept of where the wetness came from.

Wetness is not a concrete thing, it is a state of affair..it is the state that an object is in once H20 touches it.

If you can't understand that, then you can't be helped, sir.

(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  The brain evolved as every organ did.

This is the naturalistic version of "goddidit" Laugh out load

(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  Consciousness emerges from the complexity of the brain.

Can you scientifically demonstrate this claim, sir? No, you can't. You are assuming. You are relying on your religion (science). You accept by faith. You are relying on the unseen.

(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is evidence that science continually advances, that we learn more and more about the way things are.

Science is not the end all/be all for knowledge.

(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  There isn't even any conclusive evidence that Jesus even existed

There isn't conclusive evidence for YOU. There is conclusive evidence for the 1.2 billion Christians in the world Laugh out load

(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  let alone the rest of your incoherent myth.

About as mythical as inanimate matter coming to life.
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17-12-2015, 11:01 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(17-12-2015 10:17 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(16-12-2015 05:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  let alone the rest of your incoherent myth.

About as mythical as inanimate matter coming to life.

Which is something you still believe happened... you know you say things so often that it make extremely hard to believe you honestly believe the things you say. It's just as if that or you don't actually think these things you are saying but are fuddling up things you think make an argument.

You say things like talk about the meat and potatoes of your case, I'm still waiting for you to have anyone or make any testable claims of something that can be examined.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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17-12-2015, 11:14 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(17-12-2015 10:17 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  About as mythical as inanimate matter coming to life.

So, do you think that life has always existed? I'm pretty sure you don't. Therefore, you also believe that "inanimate matter came to life". You just think that such event had to have been caused by an invisible man in the sky. You don't deny the event itself, because you can't. We are withholding our belief in the invisible man in the sky until such time as there is any evidence of his existence.
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17-12-2015, 01:37 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(17-12-2015 11:14 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  So, do you think that life has always existed? I'm pretty sure you don't.

Actually, I do. I believe that God has always existed.

(17-12-2015 11:14 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  You just think that such event had to have been caused by an invisible man in the sky.

And you think that such an event had to have been caused by an invisible naturalistic mechanism that did something in the distant past that it has never been observed to do in the present.

(17-12-2015 11:14 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  You don't deny the event itself, because you can't. We are withholding our belief in the invisible man in the sky until such time as there is any evidence of his existence.

And I am withholding my belief in the invisible naturalistic mechanism that can turn nonliving matter into living and breathing human beings of intellect..and I am withholding my belief until such a time as there is any evidence of its existence.
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