Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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24-12-2015, 10:17 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(23-12-2015 04:13 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(22-12-2015 08:44 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Peaks in Unsure

Notices stench coming from the corner where Crap_of_the_Wild continues to bloviate unsupported bullshit. Thinks to himself what a deluded moron. Closes door, walks away snickering.

*Walks into a store (that shall remain unnamed)".

Me: "I'd like to see if you guys have any unsupported bullshit".

Clerk: "We sure do."

*Clerk walks to the back and returns with a book on evolution*.

Me: "How did you know which book I wanted??"

Clerk: Well, you did say "unsupported bullshit", didn't you?

Me: "Ohh, I see your point".

*I take the book and turn to leave*.

Clerk: "Um, excuse me sir, I am going to have to charge you for that book".

Me: "Wait a minute, isn't books like this normally free"? So now all of a sudden I am being charged for nonsense??"

Clerk: "You are right, the book is nonsense. But since the rise of the New Atheist Movement, nonsense like that book is in high demand, therefore, we are charging for it now".

Me: "Ohhh, word up. Economics is a bitch. Well, ok, how much is it?".

Clerk: "Well, right now, you can purchase it for two buttons and pocket lint ".

Me: "Wow. That isn't exactly "bang for buck". I don't think I should give that much for that type of nonsense. What other kind of unsupported bullshit do you have back there"

Clerk: "Let me take a look".

*Clerk leaves and returns with book in hand*

Clerk: "This is the last book we have in our "unsupported bullshit" inventory. It is entitled "Abiogenesis:Life from Nonlife: How to Believe Without Justification".

Me: And how much is that one?

Clerk: This one is more expensive than the other one. This one is being sold for three buttons, pocket lint, and a marble".

Me: You know what, man. That is a rip-off. I have to give up "that much" for books on evolution and abiogenesis? I refuse.

*Storms out of the store*.

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

That was fucking lame.
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09-01-2016, 08:10 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
watching call of the wild getting destroyed is very entertaining. thank you everyone. especially you COTW.
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09-01-2016, 10:43 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
Call of the Wild, I apologize for not getting back to you on this with a response. I can only plead that I have been incredibly busy and have had no time to post more than passing comments. Your responses to me deserve more than that and now that I have some free time (finally!) I want to respond in detail.

I had written: One can apply the qualifier "necessary" to anything one imagines. Sparky the Wonder Unicorn is a necessary being. This is the fallacy of stipulation by contrived definition. One can attach any number of contrived qualities to anything one can imagine, but we know that according the primacy of existence principle, the imaginary is not real and does not really exists no matter how we describe it.

You replied: Then we will have to get into modal logic and possible world semantics.

No we don't. I've already told you that I reject the necessary/ contingent dichotomy. I also reject its various offshoots including the analytic/ Synthetic dichotomy. I explained why, because it is based on a flawed theory of concepts. It confuses a concept with its definition. I don't recognize the possibility of other worlds. The only alternative to reality is unreality.

You then wrote: Let me ask you something; this "Sparky the Wonder Unicorn"....is it omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, omnibenovlent[sic]...and does it have free will?

Yes, or no?

Of course it does. I freely admit that Sparky the Wonder Unicorn is imaginary. It can have any attributes I imagine it having. Free will? why not. I can imagine Sparky having free will.

I had written: I define the universe as the sum total of what exists. Therefore the universe can not have a cause.

You replied: Non sequitur.

How so? You do not explain. I note that you did not take issue with my defining the universe as the sum total of what exists. The sum total of what exists can not have a cause. This is because a cause presupposes existence. causes only exist within the universe.

I had written: Such a notion would commit the fallacy of the stolen concept by asking for a cause outside of existence. This is akin to trying to lift the chair you are sitting in over your head while you are sitting in it. It can't be done.

You replied: Nonsense, based on the fact that we have philsophical [sic] and scientific evidence that the universe did in fact have begin to exist, and therefore, an external cause is absolutely positively necessary.


No. We don't. We have evidence that something expanded and cooled and formed the stars and galaxies. We don't even have a theory about what expanded because our understanding of physics breaks down at that point. The bib bang theory starts shortly after the universe started to expand. Everything prior to that is speculation.

But the very notion of a cause outside of the universe would, as I've pointed out, commit the fallacy of the stolen concept. I note that you have not responded to this charge. You've ignored it. It won't go away by ignoring it. It's still there at the root of your argument.

I notice that you do not define what you mean by the universe. I think it is crucial to do this. I've given my definition -the sum total of what exists-and you have not taken issue with it. So define your terms and be clear.

I had written: I reject the necessary/ contingent dichotomy because it is based on a flawed theory of concepts. It confuses a concept with its definition. A concept, on my view, means the units it subsumes and all of their attributes. Leaving aside the man made, there is no such thing as necessary facts versus contingent facts, there are only the facts which are. Of course man made facts did not have to be, but once they are, they are.

You replied: All possible necessary truths must be actually true...you do agree with that, right?

I agree that all true statements are true. All possible truths are true. I don't recognize the concept of necessary truths. Truth is an aspect of identification. It is epistemological. identification is a volitional process. Truth is the non-contradictory identification of facts. All facts are inherent in the things that exist. So all facts are necessary. They exist whether we identify them or not. But identification is volitional. So there are no necessary truths. All truth is contingent upon the relationship between our identifications and reality.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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16-01-2016, 06:06 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(15-02-2015 08:26 AM)natachan Wrote:  What is a supernatural realm? What does it consist of?

It is wholly imaginary; it exists in the minds of humans.

Some years ago I was at the Sistine Chapel. I looked up at the famous painting, at the "creation of Man" portion where Adam's and God's fingers nearly touch... and it occurred to me that Michelangelo was indeed giving us a creation of Man! That 'pod' containing God and the Angels and cherubs? Go look at a human anatomy book, and tell me what that pod looks like.
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16-01-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(16-01-2016 06:06 AM)coyote Wrote:  
(15-02-2015 08:26 AM)natachan Wrote:  What is a supernatural realm? What does it consist of?

It is wholly imaginary; it exists in the minds of humans.

Some years ago I was at the Sistine Chapel. I looked up at the famous painting, at the "creation of Man" portion where Adam's and God's fingers nearly touch... and it occurred to me that Michelangelo was indeed giving us a creation of Man! That 'pod' containing God and the Angels and cherubs? Go look at a human anatomy book, and tell me what that pod looks like.
It's true that it is all in the imagination. Notice that when people pray, they always, one and all, close their eyes. They are shutting out the real world and retreating to their imaginary fantasy world. I don't believe I've ever seen someone pray with their eyes open in my life.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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17-01-2016, 06:02 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
i pray with my eyes open when im at my wifes family's holiday dinners. i feel so ridiculous and uncomfortable, especially when the one doing the prayer starts getting all emotional. i just stare at the floor and imagine the awesome mexican food that is coming my way.
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17-01-2016, 06:09 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(17-01-2016 06:02 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  i pray with my eyes open when im at my wifes family's holiday dinners. i feel so ridiculous and uncomfortable, especially when the one doing the prayer starts getting all emotional. i just stare at the floor and imagine the awesome mexican food that is coming my way.

Keeping your head up and your eyes open is key to scouting out worth-while conversation partners for the meal. Tongue

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17-01-2016, 08:01 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
i sneaked a peek and everyone always has their heads down :/
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17-01-2016, 08:15 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(17-01-2016 08:01 AM)Dark Wanderer Wrote:  i sneaked a peek and everyone always has their heads down :/

Keep your head up; others might be sneaking peeks as well

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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17-01-2016, 10:09 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
did i mention that her family is mexican? heh
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