Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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29-01-2016, 10:55 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 09:57 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 04:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, there is absolutely no evidence that it is true. None, nada, zip. Drinking Beverage

Well, there is evidence to me.

What evidence?

Quote:And besides, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The absence of evidence that should be there is compelling evidence of absence.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-01-2016, 10:57 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 10:43 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 10:15 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Explain to me what the hell does "primacy of existence" means and I will be more than happy to oblige.

But YOU keep claiming YOU are intellectually superior here.
How is it you don't know the most common concepts in Philosophy ?
Are you a little fibber, CoTW ?

Props to you Bucky, even though COTW doesn't like it.

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29-01-2016, 11:23 AM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2016 11:45 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 09:57 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Well, there is evidence to me.

So what ? The point is what ?
Are you trying to convince yourself ?
If you're trying to get someone ELSE to share your delusions, you must convince them to accept your (so-called) "evidence". Good luck wuth that.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-01-2016, 11:27 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 10:49 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(28-01-2016 04:14 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I'm not seeing what he did that made him trustworthy of a claim that he is the only way to god. What should make one think that is something for trusting a random guy.

Jesus' Resurrection was confirmation that he was who he claimed to be, Clyde.

That doesn't confirm anything. He could be any multitude of spiritual or deity beings, but that doesn't prove that he is the one connection to god at all. In what way does his statement get confirmed by such an event? Him being Resurrected doesn't relate to a path or not pathway to god in anyway. The ideas that spring up here don't follow any direct progression.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-01-2016, 11:40 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 10:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 09:57 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Well, there is evidence to me.

What evidence?

Quote:And besides, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The absence of evidence that should be there is compelling evidence of absence.

"The dog didn't bark." - Sherlock Holmes

#sigh
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29-01-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 10:11 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 08:15 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:  The "historical" evidence for the resurrection is limited to the writings of the New Testament

And why doesn't New Testament writings have virtue? If your attitude towards the NT is "if it comes from the NT, it can't be true", then your entire reasoning is fallacious.

I said nothing about virtue. I actually think there is a lot of good stuff in the New Testament (although, in general, it isn't as interesting or as well-written as the Old Testament). I have read most of the New Testament, and I've lost count of how many different translations of it I own. However, it's not very reliable as history. All of it was written many years after the death of Jesus (who may or may not have even existed), and there is good evidence that none of the writers ever knew Jesus, or even met him or saw him. It's hearsay at best, and fiction at worst. And the people who decided which of the many writings about Jesus to include in the Bible had, shall we say, "an agenda".

Quote:...before any book of the NT was written, the belief of the Resurrection was already in place, and it had been in place for at least 25 years prior to the books being written.

And you know this how? To quote someone on your side, "Were you there?" How do you know when the belief was in place? All you have to go by are the highly biased writings of the New Testament. Again, they may be entertaining, but they're not reliable.
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29-01-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 10:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yeah but then what the hell is the reason to think it?

He didn't need to prove it to himself, he knew what he could do. He had to prove it to the disciples, so the question SHOULD be; "what the hell reason did the disciples have to believe it".

I know the answer, Clyde: The Post-Mortem Appearances.
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29-01-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 01:27 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 10:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yeah but then what the hell is the reason to think it?

He didn't need to prove it to himself, he knew what he could do. He had to prove it to the disciples, so the question SHOULD be; "what the hell reason did the disciples have to believe it".

I know the answer, Clyde: The Post-Mortem Appearances.

Thats a not fitting reply because its a reply a replay about a point I wasn't talking about in that specific reply. Nor does it answer the other point of what does the post mortem apperence do at ALL to prove or even be evidence of the John 14:6 claim. Coming back from the dead doesn't compute to some answer to the claim of the only true way to god. There is no connection there.

The point there was regards to your claims about absence of evidence. Sure if absence isn't evidence of absence, but then where does the evidence come from in the scenario?

To the actual concept, why would you believe the alleged account of this Resurrection?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-01-2016, 01:50 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 01:27 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 10:38 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yeah but then what the hell is the reason to think it?

He didn't need to prove it to himself, he knew what he could do. He had to prove it to the disciples, so the question SHOULD be; "what the hell reason did the disciples have to believe it".

I know the answer, Clyde: The Post-Mortem Appearances.

In James' epistle, he never claimed HIS BROTHER rose from the dead. If YOUR brother rose from the dead, would YOU forget to mention it ?

On the Road to Emmaus he was not recognized. The "experience" of "coming to recognize" him, (as the "exalted one") was allegorical. No one ever 'saw' him, (physically). The words from the Greek mean "coming to recognize he was the *exalted one*", (who had been "raised up:" / "exalted" , just like the other Jewish apocalyptic heroes ... NOT that he rose physically from the dead.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...other-look

Take a class some day CoTW.

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29-01-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I said nothing about virtue.

That seemed to be the implication.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I actually think there is a lot of good stuff in the New Testament (although, in general, it isn't as interesting or as well-written as the Old Testament).

Cool.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  However, it's not very reliable as history.

Why not?

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  All of it was written many years after the death of Jesus

A case can be made that all of it was written during lifetime of his disciples.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  (who may or may not have even existed)

The majority consensus among historians is that Jesus of Nazareth (the man) is historical.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  , and there is good evidence that none of the writers ever knew Jesus, or even met him or saw him.

What good evidence?

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  It's hearsay at best, and fiction at worst.

That is a biased perception there, isn't it. It is "hearsay at best, and fiction at worse"??

What if the "hearsay" is the truth? Never thought about that huh?? If fiction is the worse end of the spectrum, then the TRUTH is the best end of the spectrum...and that is no matter how much you'd like to veil the truth possibility with a "hearsay" tag.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  And the people who decided which of the many writings about Jesus to include in the Bible had, shall we say, "an agenda".

They decided it based on a certain criterion. If the given book didn't meet a certain criterion, it was rejected as part of the canon.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  And you know this how? To quote someone on your side, "Were you there?" How do you know when the belief was in place?

Um, if Paul is writing to a Church in Corinthians in the early 50's CE, and he is affirming the Resurrection in his writings...then wouldn't it logically follow that the belief in the Resurrection preceded the time that he began to write the letter??

Just sayin' Consider

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  All you have to go by are the highly biased writings of the New Testament.

As biased as they may have been...either they were biasly telling the truth, or biasly telling lies. No gray area.
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