Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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29-01-2016, 02:12 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
lol COTW still wandering the halls pissing his delusions on the wall?

He doesn't even recognize that no one who EVER wrote of jesus, knew him. Not one witness...ever....he prob still thinks the synoptic gospels were written by their namesakes, even though we know they are pseudonymous works.....Special...he truly is.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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29-01-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 01:55 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I said nothing about virtue.

That seemed to be the implication.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  I actually think there is a lot of good stuff in the New Testament (although, in general, it isn't as interesting or as well-written as the Old Testament).

Cool.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  However, it's not very reliable as history.

Why not?

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  All of it was written many years after the death of Jesus

A case can be made that all of it was written during lifetime of his disciples.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  (who may or may not have even existed)

The majority consensus among historians is that Jesus of Nazareth (the man) is historical.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  , and there is good evidence that none of the writers ever knew Jesus, or even met him or saw him.

What good evidence?

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  It's hearsay at best, and fiction at worst.

That is a biased perception there, isn't it. It is "hearsay at best, and fiction at worse"??

What if the "hearsay" is the truth? Never thought about that huh?? If fiction is the worse end of the spectrum, then the TRUTH is the best end of the spectrum...and that is no matter how much you'd like to veil the truth possibility with a "hearsay" tag.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  And the people who decided which of the many writings about Jesus to include in the Bible had, shall we say, "an agenda".

They decided it based on a certain criterion. If the given book didn't meet a certain criterion, it was rejected as part of the canon.

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  And you know this how? To quote someone on your side, "Were you there?" How do you know when the belief was in place?

Um, if Paul is writing to a Church in Corinthians in the early 50's CE, and he is affirming the Resurrection in his writings...then wouldn't it logically follow that the belief in the Resurrection preceded the time that he began to write the letter??

Just sayin' Consider

(29-01-2016 12:19 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  All you have to go by are the highly biased writings of the New Testament.

As biased as they may have been...either they were biasly telling the truth, or biasly telling lies. No gray area.

Hahaha. "Biasedly telling the truth". There's a new one.

Read the end of Matthew some day, COTW. It says they ("seeing") DOUBTED but believed. No one who actually sees a risen body has to doubt anything. You actually know zero, nada, zip, about your own cult. Try reading the Bible some day.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-01-2016, 02:24 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 02:12 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  lol COTW still wandering the halls pissing his delusions on the wall?

He doesn't even recognize that no one who EVER wrote of jesus, knew him. Not one witness...ever....he prob still thinks the synoptic gospels were written by their namesakes, even though we know they are pseudonymous works.....Special...he truly is.

Yes, I mentioned that, and he wants me to prove it. Since you have already done that, at much greater length than I'm willing to, I'm not going to bother. If he didn't listen to you, why would he listen to me?
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29-01-2016, 05:22 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 02:24 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 02:12 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  lol COTW still wandering the halls pissing his delusions on the wall?

He doesn't even recognize that no one who EVER wrote of jesus, knew him. Not one witness...ever....he prob still thinks the synoptic gospels were written by their namesakes, even though we know they are pseudonymous works.....Special...he truly is.

Yes, I mentioned that, and he wants me to prove it. Since you have already done that, at much greater length than I'm willing to, I'm not going to bother. If he didn't listen to you, why would he listen to me?

True. Cartilage of the Brain is the very definition of ineducable tyro.

Let's review:

I have long posited the fact that the gospels were not written by their namesakes. This has been proven to exhaustive detail by evidence I have previously provided. But lets look at more information which continues to support these facts...

The Catholic Encyclopedia (1909) says about the four gospels. "The first four historical books of the New Testament are supplied with titles (Euaggelion kata Matthaion, Euaggelion kata Markon, etc.), which, however ancient, do not go back to the respective authors of those sacred writings. It thus appears that the present titles of the Gospels are not traceable to the Evangelists themselves.”

"These Gospels are anonymous. They do not purport to have been written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Their titles do not affirm it. They appeared anonymously. The titles placed above them in our Bibles owe their origin to a later ecclesiastical tradition which deserves no confidence whatever." -Rev. Dr. Hooykaas (Bible for Learners, Vol. III, p. 24).

"There have been a number of theories put forth over the years. Possibly the most popular one (at least it’s the one I’ve heard most often) is that the Gospel writers thought that what was most important was the message they wanted to convey about the life, teachings, deeds, death, and resurrection of Jesus. The authors did not want their own persons to “get in the way” of the message, and so they wrote their Gospels anonymously." - Bart D. Ehrman - American New Testament scholar, currently the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

"All four Gospels are anonymous. The traditional names - Matthew, Mark, Luke and John - did not become associated with these writings until the second century. In the early centuries of Christianity, our four Gospels coexisted with a number of other Christian writings, many of which have not been preserved. Finally, the Synod of Carthage adopted the present twenty-seven New Testament books, including the four Gospels, as the canon of the New Testament in the year 397." - Christian Bible Reference Site

“Neither the evangelists nor their first readers engaged in historical analysis. Their aim was to confirm Christian faith (Lk 1.4; Jn 20.31). Scholars generally agree that the Gospels were written forty to sixty years after the death of Jesus. They thus do not present eyewitness or contemporary accounts of Jesus’ life and teachings.” - Oxford Annotated Bible

“Because our surviving Greek manuscripts provide such a wide variety of (different) titles for the Gospels, textual scholars have long realized that their familiar names do no go back to a single ‘original’ title, but were added by later scribes.” - Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium

"Even though the Gospels go under the names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, they were, in fact, written anonymously. These names first appeared in the second century and were assigned to the anonymous writings to give the writings apostolic authority. The Gospel of Mark was written before any of the other canonical gospels and was written after the fall of the second temple which occurred in 70 CE."

"The canonical gospels upon which the Christian faith is built, the ones which present the words of Jesus are writings by unknown authors writing to buttress the particular points they wished to make. The quotations allegedly from Jesus were most likely, made up by the authors to support their positions.

1. The titles in our English Bibles are later additions; they are not original to the Gospels themselves.
2. The Gospel narratives are always written in the third person.
3. The tradition that they were written by two disciples (Matthew and John) and by two companions of the apostles (Mark and Luke) is first attested in the 2nd century!
4. What we can say for certain about the authors is that they were all highly educated, literate, Greek-speaking Christians of at least the second generation, contrast this with the apostles of Jesus, who were uneducated, lower class, illiterate, Aramaic-speaking peasants."

“One of the most amazing and perplexing features of mainstream Christianity is that seminarians who learn the historical-critical method in their Bible classes appear to forget all about it when it comes time for them to be pastors. They are taught critical approaches to Scripture, they learn about the discrepancies and contradictions, they discover all sorts of historical errors and mistakes, they come to realize that it is difficult to know whether Moses existed or what Jesus actually said and did, they find that there are other books that were at one time considered canonical but that ultimately did not become part of Scripture for example, other Gospels and Apocalypses, they come to recognize that a good number of the books of the Bible are pseudonymous for example, written in the name of an apostle by someone else, like the four gospels, that in fact we don't have the original copies of any of the biblical books but only copies made centuries later, all of which have been altered. They learn all of this, and yet when they enter church ministry they appear to put it back on the shelf. Pastors are, as a rule, reluctant to teach what they learned about the Bible in seminary.” ― Bart D. Ehrman - American New Testament scholar, currently the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

Joke amongst seminary students: "If you still belief in god after you graduate, you haven't been listening."

Angel

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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29-01-2016, 07:05 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 10:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  What evidence?

I can't tell you what evidence is good enough for you, all I know is what is good enough for me.

And I am convinced.

(29-01-2016 10:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  The absence of evidence that should be there is compelling evidence of absence.

Yeah, what he said..
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29-01-2016, 07:09 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 01:44 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Thats a not fitting reply because its a reply a replay about a point I wasn't talking about in that specific reply. Nor does it answer the other point of what does the post mortem apperence do at ALL to prove or even be evidence of the John 14:6 claim. Coming back from the dead doesn't compute to some answer to the claim of the only true way to god. There is no connection there.

I am going to believe whatever a man that raises from the dead tells me.

(29-01-2016 01:44 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  The point there was regards to your claims about absence of evidence. Sure if absence isn't evidence of absence, but then where does the evidence come from in the scenario?

To the actual concept, why would you believe the alleged account of this Resurrection?

Historical evidence, Clyde. You do realize that the historical method is a way to knowledge, right? I'm sure you do. Well then, I am applying the historical method to an event that is said to have happened in history, and I conclude that it did.

There. Got it?
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29-01-2016, 07:10 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 07:05 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 10:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  What evidence?

I can't tell you what evidence is good enough for you, all I know is what is good enough for me.

And I am convinced.

What is your evidence? That is what I asked, so how about you answer that instead of editorializing?

Quote:
(29-01-2016 10:55 AM)Chas Wrote:  The absence of evidence that should be there is compelling evidence of absence.

Yeah, what he said..

So you agree that there should be evidence but it does not exist. Good.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-01-2016, 07:11 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 11:27 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That doesn't confirm anything. He could be any multitude of spiritual or deity beings, but that doesn't prove that he is the one connection to god at all. In what way does his statement get confirmed by such an event? Him being Resurrected doesn't relate to a path or not pathway to god in anyway. The ideas that spring up here don't follow any direct progression.

To raise yourself from the dead is to be God, Clyde. You do realize that Jesus is God, right?
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29-01-2016, 07:13 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 02:12 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  lol COTW still wandering the halls pissing his delusions on the wall?

He doesn't even recognize that no one who EVER wrote of jesus, knew him. Not one witness...ever....he prob still thinks the synoptic gospels were written by their namesakes, even though we know they are pseudonymous works.....Special...he truly is.

Still tryin, huh GWOG? Still tryin.

SMH.
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29-01-2016, 07:13 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(29-01-2016 07:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(29-01-2016 11:27 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  That doesn't confirm anything. He could be any multitude of spiritual or deity beings, but that doesn't prove that he is the one connection to god at all. In what way does his statement get confirmed by such an event? Him being Resurrected doesn't relate to a path or not pathway to god in anyway. The ideas that spring up here don't follow any direct progression.

To raise yourself from the dead is to be God, Clyde. You do realize that Jesus is God, right?

There is no confirmable evidence of a resurrection.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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