Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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03-02-2016, 03:33 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 02:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  Obviously true.

Tell that to him, not me.

(03-02-2016 02:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  By having a sufficiently complex brain. Consciousness is an emergent property of the brain.

So if you had all of the brain matter in the world at your disposal, and you are tasked to create a conscious brain from scratch...and you shape and mold the matter into a brain..where would you get the consciousness??

(03-02-2016 02:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  You disagree with neuroscientists on that. Thoughts can actually be induced - created - by electrical stimulation and magnetic fields.

I said thoughts aren't physical...meaning they can't be weighed, measured, colored, etc..and they can't.

(03-02-2016 02:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  Just did.

You said it, you didn't prove it. "Proving" something tends to take one further than just merely "saying" something. Don't know why. Life, I guess.

(03-02-2016 02:35 PM)Chas Wrote:  Failed argument.

Failed refutation.
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03-02-2016, 03:36 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 03:33 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  So if you had all of the brain matter in the world at your disposal, and you are tasked to create a conscious brain from scratch...and you shape and mold the matter into a brain..where would you get the consciousness??

At the cartilage store. Thumbsup

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03-02-2016, 03:38 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 03:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  Factually incorrect.

Refuses to play the "my sources are better than yours game".

(03-02-2016 03:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  Admitting what is not known is part of an intellectually honest belief system.

So admitting what is known must be part of an even more intellectually honest belief system.

(03-02-2016 03:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  You traverse actual infinities all the time. There are infinitely many numbers between 0 and 1, and infinitely many numbers between any pair of those, and infinitely many numbers between any pair of those, ad infinitum.
Every step you take traverses an infinity of points.
[/quote]

Ok, so if you counted all of the numbers between 0 and 1, would you ever arrive at 1? Hmmm Consider
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03-02-2016, 03:39 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 02:53 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  ...you didn't address my point...

You haven't made any "points", just a bunch of half-baked apologetics that have been presented dozens of times before, on this forum and elsewhere, and been refuted dozens of times. Why should I waste my time addressing them? I responded to what I wanted to respond to. Get over it. I won't waste any more of my time on you.
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03-02-2016, 03:41 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 03:38 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Refuses to play the "my sources are better than yours game".

Except, you never gave your sources.
Oh wait. We know. You pull your shit out of your ass.

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03-02-2016, 03:49 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 02:21 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(03-02-2016 11:05 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  I begin with the axioms, one of which is the axiom of consciousness.
That consciousness develops from non consciousness is directly observable.
A fetus starts out as an egg and a sperm and it develops consciousness as it matures. Do you deny this fact?

You do realize that there was a time at which there was no life, no sperm, and no egg..and on your view, NO consciousness? The question is how do you go from lack of consciousness, to consciousness. The argument is simple; thoughts aren't physical, so no physical entity can be used to explain the origin of consciousness. That is the argument in a nut shell

On Earth, yes, that is what the evidence points to. Generally speaking consciousness comes from existence by a causal process. If you want to say that it came from non-existence by a non-causal process, I'm open to hearing your argument for this. How exactly consciousness arises is a question for the special sciences to answer. Thoughts and consciousness are biological in nature. They are a type of action performed by biological organisms. The fact that we have no explanation for how consciousness arises, does not mean that it can not be explained by natural processes. Talk about a non sequitur. Defining consciousness as non-physical tells us what consciousness is not, and isn't very useful as a definition. As far as I know, consciousness is its own special kind of existent. The fact is that matter exists and so does consciousness. My starting point recognizes this fact. so your argument is fallacious. It is an argument from ignorance.

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03-02-2016, 03:54 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 02:21 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  What you describe above is what occurred AFTER the Creation miracle. That is why, of course, you can't go in a lab and produce a mind from nonliving material. You can only explain what happened AFTER life/consciousness began...but for questions such as "but where the hell did life/consciousness come from in the first place", you need a transcendent explanation.

I've already explained why existence is transcendent. Life/ consciousness came from existence by a causal process. If you want to argue that it came from non-existence, by all means make your argument. Let's see what your starting point is and what your premises are. Be careful that you do not assume my starting point in doing this and make sure your argument is in compliance with the primacy of existence principle. Good luck.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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03-02-2016, 04:11 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2016 04:16 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 02:21 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  What you describe above is what occurred AFTER the Creation miracle. That is why, of course, you can't go in a lab and produce a mind from nonliving material.

There's no creation and no miracle.
All minds work from biological structures, made UP from matter. There is not one instance known for consciousess to arise in any other manner. Sensory input, (the mechanisms for which are known chemial pathways) rapidly referenced to memories, (which are stored as chemical structures), produces consciousness. Severly injured brains are not conscious.

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03-02-2016, 04:27 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 03:39 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  You haven't made any "points", just a bunch of half-baked apologetics that have been presented dozens of times before, on this forum and elsewhere, and been refuted dozens of times. Why should I waste my time addressing them? I responded to what I wanted to respond to.

That infinity problem is a bitch, isn't it? Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

(03-02-2016 03:39 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  Get over it. I won't waste any more of my time on you.

Another one bites the dust Cool
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03-02-2016, 04:32 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 03:38 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(03-02-2016 03:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  Factually incorrect.

Refuses to play the "my sources are better than yours game".

You refuse to admit you are wrong.

Quote:
(03-02-2016 03:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  Admitting what is not known is part of an intellectually honest belief system.

So admitting what is known must be part of an even more intellectually honest belief system.

That was a vapid response. You're not even trying.

Quote:
(03-02-2016 03:17 PM)Chas Wrote:  You traverse actual infinities all the time. There are infinitely many numbers between 0 and 1, and infinitely many numbers between any pair of those, and infinitely many numbers between any pair of those, ad infinitum.
Every step you take traverses an infinity of points.
Ok, so if you counted all of the numbers between 0 and 1, would you ever arrive at 1? Hmmm Consider

They are, in fact, uncountable. But you don't even know what that means because you don't understand the mathematics.
Yet you pretend to. Facepalm

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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