Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-02-2016, 01:24 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 03:24 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  If you don't understand my argument, how do you know it is silly and how do you know that it is not valid and sound? If it is proving difficult, perhaps you should think about it and learn before you pass judgement.

As you we discuss the argument, there are certain things that are easily understandable, and certain things that are like..."Huh??"

And to keep it real with you, I don't necessarily think that my failure to understand the argumet is based upon the JACKED UP way you are explaining it. Why? Because in my limited research after viewing both video and articles regarding the POE, NO ONE is explaining it the way to make me understand just what the hell you guys are talking about.

So all I can do is try to understand it the best way I can, and respond to what I think it means.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-02-2016, 01:32 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 04:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  If you made a sufficiently complex brain you could.

I am not sure how this is an adequate response to the question of "where would you get it (consciousness)?".

(03-02-2016 04:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  They are quite physical. They are the patterns of connections and the ongoing electrochemical activity of the brain.

Ok, so how much does the thought of a painting weigh? What color is it? And how long is it?

(03-02-2016 04:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  You asked for an explanation, not a proof. I explained it.

Well, I am asking for proof now. So prove it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-02-2016, 01:34 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-02-2016 04:59 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  What sources? You haven't been explaining or delivering sources for your claims or sources for what contexts make you believe the particular x things you believe about a scientific, mathematical, or even philosophical idea that you claim to base your ideas on.

My point was, he posted a link...and I can easily post a link that has content contrary to his link. So then it will be a battle of who has the better link.

(03-02-2016 04:59 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You haven't answered where you base your understandings of these specific fields from or what your base for understanding them is.

I wasn't asked, either.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-02-2016, 01:43 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-02-2016 01:34 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(03-02-2016 04:59 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  What sources? You haven't been explaining or delivering sources for your claims or sources for what contexts make you believe the particular x things you believe about a scientific, mathematical, or even philosophical idea that you claim to base your ideas on.

My point was, he posted a link...and I can easily post a link that has content contrary to his link. So then it will be a battle of who has the better link.

(03-02-2016 04:59 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You haven't answered where you base your understandings of these specific fields from or what your base for understanding them is.

I wasn't asked, either.

Funny, since I asked you that multiple times already.

I specifically in multiple posts asked questions saying, what is your basis for these understandings, what your base for knowing something is, and asked about how you determine something is evidence if there is an absence of evidence? You just skirt things apparently and think they don't exist because you ignored them.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-02-2016, 02:21 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-02-2016 01:24 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(03-02-2016 03:24 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  If you don't understand my argument, how do you know it is silly and how do you know that it is not valid and sound? If it is proving difficult, perhaps you should think about it and learn before you pass judgement.

As you we discuss the argument, there are certain things that are easily understandable, and certain things that are like..."Huh??"

And to keep it real with you, I don't necessarily think that my failure to understand the argumet is based upon the JACKED UP way you are explaining it. Why? Because in my limited research after viewing both video and articles regarding the POE, NO ONE is explaining it the way to make me understand just what the hell you guys are talking about.

So all I can do is try to understand it the best way I can, and respond to what I think it means.

I can totally understand that you're having trouble understanding. It took me a long time, I've been an Objectivist for over 10 years now. I've understood it for so long that it seems hard to imagine that anyone would have a hard time with it. So don't feel like you should get it right away. I've tried to explain it in as simple terms as I can, not because I think you are stupid, but this is probably all new to you and it's a new way of looking at the issue. Still though, if you don't fully understand it, don't you think it is a little premature to declare it silly nonsense?

You'll want to be careful. The only videos I've seen on the subject, the presenters don't get it right. They make many errors. for instance the videos by Ozzymandius are pretty bad and in need of a lot of correction. I reccomend, if you are really interested in understanding, that you read the original source material. I recommend the essay titled The Made versus the Metaphysically given in Philosophy: Who Needs it.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-02-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-02-2016 01:02 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(03-02-2016 04:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  They are, in fact, uncountable.

Then you are conceding my point that you would never make it to 2.

Poor, ignorant, soul No

I knew you would not understand. It in no way supports your garbled point.

It is proof of actual, completed infinities. The distance from point A to point B is finite - there is an infinity of points in between.

Quote:
(03-02-2016 04:32 PM)Chas Wrote:  But you don't even know what that means because you don't understand the mathematics.
Yet you pretend to. Facepalm

Quit while you are behind, Chas.

You are hilarious. You are the poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-02-2016, 03:21 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-02-2016 02:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  I knew you would not understand. It in no way supports your garbled point.

Sure it did.

(04-02-2016 02:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is proof of actual, completed infinities. The distance from point A to point B is finite - there is an infinity of points in between.

So basically, you can get from A to B if you skipped all of the points in between (an infinite amount), but you wouldn't get from A to B if you counted all of the points in between?

Makes no sense.

Second, you still didn't address the point that, if the past is eternal, the fact that we've arrived at today would mean that we've already traversed an infinite number/amount of individual days...which is demonstrably impossible.

I will now wait for your typical lame ass response to this, in the same way with the whole consiouscness thing. You simply don't have an answer for it and all you can do is just teeter around the problem like you are currently doing.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-02-2016, 03:29 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-02-2016 02:21 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I can totally understand that you're having trouble understanding. It took me a long time, I've been an Objectivist for over 10 years now. I've understood it for so long that it seems hard to imagine that anyone would have a hard time with it. So don't feel like you should get it right away.

Funny you say that, because I can't tell you how long it took me to understand the MOA. It took a while. But after I got it, dammit, I got it!! And what is more difficult than understanding the MOA? Getting others to understand the MOA. Explaining it. Where do you start?

So I'm with you there.

(04-02-2016 02:21 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  I've tried to explain it in as simple terms as I can, not because I think you are stupid, but this is probably all new to you and it's a new way of looking at the issue. Still though, if you don't fully understand it, don't you think it is a little premature to declare it silly nonsense?

Perhaps..maybe, yes.

(04-02-2016 02:21 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  You'll want to be careful. The only videos I've seen on the subject, the presenters don't get it right. They make many errors. for instance the videos by Ozzymandius are pretty bad and in need of a lot of correction. I reccomend, if you are really interested in understanding, that you read the original source material. I recommend the essay titled The Made versus the Metaphysically given in Philosophy: Who Needs it.

I will look in to that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-02-2016, 03:55 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-02-2016 03:21 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(04-02-2016 02:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  I knew you would not understand. It in no way supports your garbled point.

Sure it did.

(04-02-2016 02:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is proof of actual, completed infinities. The distance from point A to point B is finite - there is an infinity of points in between.

So basically, you can get from A to B if you skipped all of the points in between (an infinite amount), but you wouldn't get from A to B if you counted all of the points in between?

If you stop and take the time to count an infinite number of points then it will take you an infinite amount of time to do so. So don't stop to count, just traverse.

Quote:Makes no sense.

Why am I not surprised that it makes no sense to you? Facepalm

You do not understand the mathematics that you claim to and misuse.

Quote:Second, you still didn't address the point that, if the past is eternal, the fact that we've arrived at today would mean that we've already traversed an infinite number/amount of individual days...which is demonstrably impossible.

If it is "demonstrably impossible", demonstrate it.

Quote:I will now wait for your typical lame ass response to this, in the same way with the whole consiouscness thing. You simply don't have an answer for it and all you can do is just teeter around the problem like you are currently doing.

Teeter around what problem? The only problem is your lack of mathematical comprehension.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
04-02-2016, 04:32 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-02-2016 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  If you stop and take the time to count an infinite number of points then it will take you an infinite amount of time to do so.

No shit, Captain Obvious.

(04-02-2016 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  So don't stop to count, just traverse.

Makes no sense.

(04-02-2016 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  Why am I not surprised that it makes no sense to you? Facepalm

You do not understand the mathematics that you claim to and misuse.

I understand all I need to understand.

(04-02-2016 03:55 PM)Chas Wrote:  If it is "demonstrably impossible", demonstrate it.

Simple. If we've reached "today" based on traversing an infinite number/amount of "yesterdays", then we would never arrive at "today"....in the same way we would never arrive at "B" if we counted all of the points in between A and B.

You cannot reach infinity by successive addition. The fact that we've reached "today" would mean that an infinity "set" of days have already been counted.

Or better yet, we can look at it this way. If the past is eternal, that would mean that there are an infinite number of centuries havepasted...an infinite number of milleniums have pasted...an infinite number of days, months, years, etc....this, DESPITE the fact that each of those frames of time have different values.

Or the fact that, as I said before (which was ignored)...we've arrived at "today", correct? How many days lead up today? An infinite amount of days, right? If you were given the task of counting BACKWARDS, one by one, the EQUAL number of days going BACKWARDS that it took to arrive FORWARD (today), at what number day would you stop at??

Huh? Remember, EQUAL distance. It is impossible to stop at any numbered day of equal distance...because there will always be a day that preceded whatever day you stop at...so you would never actually arrive at a day.

So what the hell does that mean? Well, if you can't an equal day going BACKWARDS, then how in the hell could you ever reach equal distance going FORWARD??? Consider It works both ways.

If and ONLY if there was a past boundary...a beginning, would you EVER be able to reach equal distance. Because you can only reach equal distance when there are two reference points.

And unfortunately for you and your worldview, there is no way out of this. This is a logical issue, and it is independent of any cosmologist, physicists, biologist, mathematician, whatever. There is no way out of this. No escape. A First Cause is absolutely, positively necessary.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: