Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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05-02-2016, 06:14 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-02-2016 05:35 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.

This is the heart of the problem. You cannot go from "there exists" to "for all". It is a rookie logic error.

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05-02-2016, 08:14 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your entire response displays your lack of understanding of the concept of infinity, mathematical or otherwise.

Kinda reminds me of the whole evolution bit..."you just don't understand evolution"...now it is "you don't understand the concept of infinity". Laugh out load

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no point that is infinity

Ignorant statement. If we've arrived at "today", and there were an infinite number of days preceding "today", then "today" is the infinite point.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  , no start, no end.

I don't recall ever saying there was. Straw man?

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  You can continue to assert that an infinite past is impossible, but you have provided no proof, not even evidence. Just your assertions.

"Just assertions" my ass. If you can't give me the equal distance to the past relative to "today", then my point is proven.

How in the hell can we arrive at "today" if we can't go back in time and land EQUAL distance on the SAME "day" that was traversed to here in the first place (today).

Makes no sense. Now of course, you can sit there and act as if this isn't a problem all you'd like...but we both know that deep down inside, you know you've just simply lost this one..but that is your problem, not mines.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  Sure, but there was infinite time to do so.

And? It took an infinite time to arrive at "today", but we got here.

Pathetic attempts.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are, in fact, a countable infinity of each. Those sets have the same cardinality (size), just like the set of natural numbers is the same size as the set of even integers is the same size as the set of prime numbers is the same size as the set of numbers divisible by 47 ...

That is all theoretical nonsense. You can't apply it to the real world. If person A lived an infinite number of millennium sets, there is just no way Person B, who lived an infinite number of century sets, should have lived the same number of sets as Person A.

Just no way possible.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  But they are not uncountable, there is a countable infinity of them.

Fine, then count backwards equal distance, applying a natural number to each number that you traverse, and tell me what will be the number of the day that you land on once you've reached equal distance.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your analogies are wrong. You are applying concepts of the finite to the infinite.

Ok, so when you look at the calendar and count "day 1, day 2, day 3", are you applying concepts of the "finite to the infinite"? Laugh out load

All we are doing is counting days at this point, Chas. That's it Laugh out load

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  What do you mean "reach equal distance"? Equal to what ?

Ok, so if we are on a football field, and you are at the 1 yard line..and you are tasked to walk forward 20 yards. After you reach 20 yards, you are then tasked to walk back the OPPOSITE direction of EQUAL distance.

What is equal distance OPPOSITE from the 20 yard line?? Get it??

The same then with the days. We've arrived at "today" after traversing an infinite number "yesterdays". I want you to go back, the opposite direction..as if time is rewinding...and I want you to go back the OPPOSITE direction backwards and tell me what day would you land on?

Now, you will say "you can't do that because it is infinite" or whatever you like to say. But then you are only granting the point...you can't do it because it is POSSIBLE TO DO. That is the point.

If you can't go backwards infinite distance and arrive at a specific day, then you can't go forward. Today would never arrive. Today will only arrive if there is a past-boundary..and that boundary is the BEGINNING.

And that beginning is...Genesis 1:1..."In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."


(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  If you pick a finite number of days, you can go back that far. You can't do that with infinity as it is not an ordinal number - there is no point labeled 'infinity'.

So I am prohibited from doing it with infinity, yet, infinity did it when it traversed an infinite number of days to get to "today"? So infinity can traverse an infinite number of days and arrive at a specific day, but I can't traverse an infinite number of days and arrive at a specific day by counting one by one, just like infinity did???

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

Quote:This is impossible, because for whatever day you arrived at, there would still be an infinite number of days that preceded it!!!
Why is it 'impossible'? If I count to a huge negative number, there is still an infinity of negative numbers to go.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are making a cardinality error. The distance from A to B is finite yet there is an infinite number of points between them.

That is about as absurd as it gets right there, people Yes

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it really is the answer - your examples are in error as you do not understand the maths.

It was checkmate a long time ago, now, we are just having fun Cool
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05-02-2016, 08:26 PM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2016 08:55 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-02-2016 08:14 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  That is about as absurd as it gets right there, people

When COTW has no answer, and doesn't even get the question, that's what he does.
COTW, you're fooling no one, (but yourself).


Quote:It was checkmate a long time ago, now, we are just having fun Cool

Agree. At the expense of COTW. He's in SO FAR over his head, it's not even funny.
The more he doesn't get something, the more arrogant and defensive he gets. The sad thing is, he probably actually believes his own hype about his abilities.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-02-2016, 10:57 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-02-2016 08:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(05-02-2016 08:14 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  That is about as absurd as it gets right there, people

When COTW has no answer, and doesn't even get the question, that's what he does.
COTW, you're fooling no one, (but yourself).


Quote:It was checkmate a long time ago, now, we are just having fun Cool

Agree. At the expense of COTW. He's in SO FAR over his head, it's not even funny.
The more he doesn't get something, the more arrogant and defensive he gets. The sad thing is, he probably actually believes his own hype about his abilities.

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05-02-2016, 11:13 PM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2016 11:33 PM by Chas.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-02-2016 08:14 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your entire response displays your lack of understanding of the concept of infinity, mathematical or otherwise.

Kinda reminds me of the whole evolution bit..."you just don't understand evolution"...now it is "you don't understand the concept of infinity". Laugh out load

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  There is no point that is infinity

Ignorant statement. If we've arrived at "today", and there were an infinite number of days preceding "today", then "today" is the infinite point.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  , no start, no end.

I don't recall ever saying there was. Straw man?

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  You can continue to assert that an infinite past is impossible, but you have provided no proof, not even evidence. Just your assertions.

"Just assertions" my ass. If you can't give me the equal distance to the past relative to "today", then my point is proven.

How in the hell can we arrive at "today" if we can't go back in time and land EQUAL distance on the SAME "day" that was traversed to here in the first place (today).

Makes no sense. Now of course, you can sit there and act as if this isn't a problem all you'd like...but we both know that deep down inside, you know you've just simply lost this one..but that is your problem, not mines.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  Sure, but there was infinite time to do so.

And? It took an infinite time to arrive at "today", but we got here.

Pathetic attempts.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  There are, in fact, a countable infinity of each. Those sets have the same cardinality (size), just like the set of natural numbers is the same size as the set of even integers is the same size as the set of prime numbers is the same size as the set of numbers divisible by 47 ...

That is all theoretical nonsense. You can't apply it to the real world. If person A lived an infinite number of millennium sets, there is just no way Person B, who lived an infinite number of century sets, should have lived the same number of sets as Person A.

Just no way possible.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  But they are not uncountable, there is a countable infinity of them.

Fine, then count backwards equal distance, applying a natural number to each number that you traverse, and tell me what will be the number of the day that you land on once you've reached equal distance.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your analogies are wrong. You are applying concepts of the finite to the infinite.

Ok, so when you look at the calendar and count "day 1, day 2, day 3", are you applying concepts of the "finite to the infinite"? Laugh out load

All we are doing is counting days at this point, Chas. That's it Laugh out load

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  What do you mean "reach equal distance"? Equal to what ?

Ok, so if we are on a football field, and you are at the 1 yard line..and you are tasked to walk forward 20 yards. After you reach 20 yards, you are then tasked to walk back the OPPOSITE direction of EQUAL distance.

What is equal distance OPPOSITE from the 20 yard line?? Get it??

The same then with the days. We've arrived at "today" after traversing an infinite number "yesterdays". I want you to go back, the opposite direction..as if time is rewinding...and I want you to go back the OPPOSITE direction backwards and tell me what day would you land on?

Now, you will say "you can't do that because it is infinite" or whatever you like to say. But then you are only granting the point...you can't do it because it is POSSIBLE TO DO. That is the point.

If you can't go backwards infinite distance and arrive at a specific day, then you can't go forward. Today would never arrive. Today will only arrive if there is a past-boundary..and that boundary is the BEGINNING.

And that beginning is...Genesis 1:1..."In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."


(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  If you pick a finite number of days, you can go back that far. You can't do that with infinity as it is not an ordinal number - there is no point labeled 'infinity'.

So I am prohibited from doing it with infinity, yet, infinity did it when it traversed an infinite number of days to get to "today"? So infinity can traverse an infinite number of days and arrive at a specific day, but I can't traverse an infinite number of days and arrive at a specific day by counting one by one, just like infinity did???

Laugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out loadLaugh out load

Quote:This is impossible, because for whatever day you arrived at, there would still be an infinite number of days that preceded it!!!
Why is it 'impossible'? If I count to a huge negative number, there is still an infinity of negative numbers to go.

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are making a cardinality error. The distance from A to B is finite yet there is an infinite number of points between them.

That is about as absurd as it gets right there, people Yes

(05-02-2016 05:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it really is the answer - your examples are in error as you do not understand the maths.

It was checkmate a long time ago, now, we are just having fun Cool

When I say you don't understand the concept of infinity or the mathematics of infinity, I mean precisely that.
You lack the necessary background in maths. You continue to prove it. Go read this.

I'm going to guess that you don't understand evolution either. Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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06-02-2016, 01:24 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
I'm just gonna leave this here, I'm just tired of deciding which video to post right now

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06-02-2016, 03:27 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
Quote:A being has maximal excellence in a given possible world W if and only if it is omnipotent, omniscient and wholly good in W; and
A being has maximal greatness if it has maximal excellence in every possible world.
It is possible that there is a being that has maximal greatness. (Premise)
Therefore, possibly, it is necessarily true that an omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly good being exists.
Therefore, (by axiom S5) it is necessarily true that an omniscient, omnipotent and perfectly good being exists.
Therefore, an omniscient, omnipotent and perfectly good being exists.

Little Billy Craig says :
It is possible that a maximally great being exists.
If it is possible that a maximally great being exists, then a maximally great being exists in some possible world.
If a maximally great being exists in some possible world, then it exists in every possible world.
If a maximally great being exists in every possible world, then it exists in the actual world.
If a maximally great being exists in the actual world, then a maximally great being exists.
Therefore, a maximally great being exists.

I am in no way a (professional) philisopher, but is it me or is that utter bollocks?

Quote:A being has maximal excellence in a given possible world W if and only if it is omnipotent, omniscient and wholly good in W
Wtf is "excellence"?
Why does it have to be good?
On what basis do you juge that being to be good?

Quote:A being has maximal greatness if it has maximal excellence in every possible world.
Wtf is greatness? Why does that follow to "excellence"? "Possible" world? I would prefer to talk about real and existing worlds, instead of sneaking in silly assertions and non-sequiturs with the "possible" nonsense.

Quote:It is possible that there is a being that has maximal greatness. (Premise)
It really is? I tink the honest answer is: We dont know
Demonstrate how this is possible please

Quote:Therefore, possibly, it is necessarily true that an omniscient, omnipotent, and perfectly good being exists.
This is my favourite: "Possibly, it is necessarily true...."
Wtf, really? Now then maybe (lets call it "option b" of possibilities) it is NOT necessarily true, yeah? End of silly string of assertions.

Im not going to bother to adress Craig. Thats even more silly imho.


But that seems to prove two hypotheses of mine:

1. You dont need a PhD in order to be clever
2. You can be very stupid in fact, even with a PhD

I developed this during my time at university, looking at my professors and their abilities.
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06-02-2016, 07:24 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-02-2016 11:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  When I say you don't understand the concept of infinity or the mathematics of infinity, I mean precisely that.
You lack the necessary background in maths. You continue to prove it. Go read this.

There is a sign hanging on my Apologetic Door which states "I'm sorry, but we are not accepting bullshit links at this time.."

(05-02-2016 11:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'm going to guess that you don't understand evolution either. Consider

I understand that dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, and fish produce fish. Anything outside out that, no, I don't understand.
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06-02-2016, 08:09 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(06-02-2016 07:24 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(05-02-2016 11:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  When I say you don't understand the concept of infinity or the mathematics of infinity, I mean precisely that.
You lack the necessary background in maths. You continue to prove it. Go read this.

There is a sign hanging on my Apologetic Door which states "I'm sorry, but we are not accepting bullshit links at this time.."

You are willfully ignorant and that is contemptible.

Quote:
(05-02-2016 11:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'm going to guess that you don't understand evolution either. Consider

I understand that dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, and fish produce fish. Anything outside out that, no, I don't understand.

You could read a book on evolution, but I'm sure you won't.

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06-02-2016, 09:12 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(06-02-2016 07:24 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(05-02-2016 11:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  When I say you don't understand the concept of infinity or the mathematics of infinity, I mean precisely that.
You lack the necessary background in maths. You continue to prove it. Go read this.

There is a sign hanging on my Apologetic Door which states "I'm sorry, but we are not accepting bullshit links at this time.."

(05-02-2016 11:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'm going to guess that you don't understand evolution either. Consider

I understand that dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, and fish produce fish. Anything outside out that, no, I don't understand.

Not even back to knowing about the Grey Wolf? Or how about how Horses can to be? Or how a particular species of geckos can be seen to adapting live birth opposed to egg birth?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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