Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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11-02-2016, 07:48 PM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2016 09:39 AM by Chas.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-02-2016 01:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(10-02-2016 10:09 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Actually, according to the evidence, birds evolved from dinosaurs.

Bullshit, that isn't according to the evidence, that is according to the theory. Those two are not interchangable No

Hey, clown, here's the evidence.

Quote:
(10-02-2016 10:09 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  But a dinosaur didn't give birth to a parakeet.

Maybe not in an instance, but that was the end result...and I am saying it didn't happen at all.

But you are fucking ignorant, so there's that. Drinking Beverage

Quote:
(10-02-2016 10:09 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  What happened was something very much like a bird came before what we call a bird. Evolution does not work that fast.

Yeah, it doesn't work that fast. It conveniently takes millions of years, when no one will ever see it happen.

No, it's a bit inconvenient which is one reason it took so long to figure it out.

Quote:
(10-02-2016 10:09 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Each step along the way is a minor change.

According to the theory...

According to the fossil evidence and according to the DNA evidence.

Quote:
(10-02-2016 10:09 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  Would you call archeopteryx a bird or a dinosaur?

I call archeopteryx a prehistoric BIRD that had teeth. Point blank, period.

Your simple mind does not appear capable of anything other than ignorant absolutes.

Quote:
(10-02-2016 10:09 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  I'd call it a species of dinosaur which is very bird like and also a bird that is very dinosaur like. In other words, in between a dinosaur and a bird.

Do you know why you think that way? Because you are an atheist/naturalist. God doesn't exist, on your view...so for you, evolution is the only game in town. You have to find some way to explain the diversity in life/species...and evolution is all you have. So when you look at archeopteryx, you interpret what it was by using your presuppositions regarding evolution...and that is why you think archeo is a transitional fossil.

No, the evidence indicates it, that is why it is a fact.

Quote:Me, on the other hand, I can believe in theistic evolution...so in other words, I can accept evolution while still embracing theism. However, regardless of my view towards theism, I just don't see any evidence for evolution, PERIOD. So no, I don't accept it...and even if I did accept evolution, I'd still be smart enough to conclude that God orchestrated the entire thing.

Rubbish. You don't recognize the evidence because you won't even look at it.

Quote:Evolution, whether true or false, in no way negates the existence of God.

No, it just closes yet another gap in our knowledge where ignoramuses like you try to insert your gods.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-02-2016, 07:46 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-02-2016 01:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Maybe not in an instance, but that was the end result...and I am saying it didn't happen at all.

did you not see what I posted, a birds are dinosaurs so there is that, I mean just saying.


(11-02-2016 01:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Yeah, it doesn't work that fast. It conveniently takes millions of years, when no one will ever see it happen.

Well I will give you a few points for not using observe. Well it just so happened to take a few million years yes. after all traits do accumulate over time.

(11-02-2016 01:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  According to the theory...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory


(11-02-2016 01:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I call archeopteryx a prehistoric BIRD that had teeth. Point blank, period.

Archaeopteryx's reptile features

Premaxilla and maxilla are not horn-covered.

Trunk region vertebra are free.

Bones are pneumatic.

Pubic shafts with a plate-like, and slightly angled transverse cross-section

Cerebral hemispheres elongate, slender and cerebellum is situated behind the mid-brain and doesn't overlap it from behind or press down on it.

Neck attaches to skull from the rear as in dinosaurs not from below as in non-aquatic modern birds.

Center of cervical vertebrae have simple concave articular facets.

Long bony tail with many free vertebrae up to tip (no pygostyle).

Premaxilla and maxilla bones bear teeth.

Ribs slender, without joints or uncinate processes and do not articulate with the sternum.

Pelvic girdle and femur joint is archosaurian rather than avian (except for the backward pointing pubis as mentioned above).

The Sacrum (the vertebrae developed for the attachment of pelvic girdle) occupies 6 vertebra.

Metacarpals (hand) free (except 3rd metacarpal), wrist hand joint flexible.

Nasal opening far forward, separated from the eye by a large preorbital fenestra (hole).


Deltoid ridge of the humerus faces anteriorly as do the radial and ulnar condyles.

Claws on 3 unfused digits.

The fibula is equal in length to the tibia in the leg.

Metatarsals (foot bones) free.

Gastralia present.

Archaeopteryx's avian features

Opposable hallux (big toe).

Pubis elongate and directed backward.

feathers






(11-02-2016 01:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Do you know why you think that way? Because you are an atheist/naturalist. God doesn't exist, on your view...so for you, evolution is the only game in town. You have to find some way to explain the diversity in life/species...and evolution is all you have. So when you look at archeopteryx, you interpret what it was by using your presuppositions regarding evolution...and that is why you think archeo is a transitional fossil.

Projection much. We ain't like creationist bro, we don't care if it is a transitional fossil or not. In fact when they found it nobody believed it was, until they studied it and realized they were wrong. Nice try though, A for effort. Wink

(11-02-2016 01:11 PM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Me, on the other hand, I can believe in theistic evolution...so in other words, I can accept evolution while still embracing theism. However, regardless of my view towards theism, I just don't see any evidence for evolution, PERIOD. So no, I don't accept it...and even if I did accept evolution, I'd still be smart enough to conclude that God orchestrated the entire thing.

Evolution, whether true or false, in no way negates the existence of God.

You finally got something right. Evolution does not disprove yahweh, history does. And I don't see the sun either because I spend my days sitting in a dark room working out and playing my konpyu-ta- games, but just because I don't see something doesn't mean it is not there, just means you are to lazy to see it.

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12-02-2016, 09:14 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Or even billions.

Yeah, "even billions"...because the idea is , "over the course of a billion years, anything can happen", right?

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Whether anyone finds it convenient or not is irrelevant because reality does not conform to our feeling states.

It doesn't conform to the observational evidence, either.

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  It is what it is regardless of what we think about it. A is A whether we like it or not, remember?

Of course but the question is, "Is it A?" Consider

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  On your view, probably because you have no theory of concepts to speak of, if we can't see something, we can't know about it, unless it is your God (special pleading anyone?).

Actually, it isn't special pleading, because there is a certain methodology that is used when it comes finding truth value when it comes to empirical things..and that is the scientific method.

Science is supposed to be based on observation, repeated experiement, and predictions.

You've never observed macroevolution, there is no experiment that will get you macro results, and there is no way to predict when the next "change" will occur.

Now sure, you can believe whatever the hell you want, it just isn't "science" No

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  This completely disregards the conceptual level of consciousness. This completely disregards reason, which is the conceptual faculty. It's the means by which we Humans can extend our knowledge beyond the perceptual level. It's why we are able to rule out a creator God as a possibility.

Huh

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  We do this by looking at reality, identifying and integrating what we perceive into concepts, and integrating concepts to form general principles. This is known as induction. Then we apply those general principles, you know, like the POE, to specific cases and that is called deduction. Conceptualization from perception, induction and deduction are the methods that reason uses to validate knowledge.

And?

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  But you won't find any of this in the Bible. It has nothing to say on these subjects. It leaves the believer in the dark when it comes to epistemology. Why would it when it endorses faith.

The Bible doesn't speak as if God/Jesus are both just mere possibilities or some hypothethical situations...the Bible speaks of God/Jesus as if they are LIVING REALITIES. And it should, considering the arguments for the existence of God/Jesus are irrefutable.
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12-02-2016, 09:24 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(12-02-2016 09:14 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Or even billions.

Yeah, "even billions"...because the idea is , "over the course of a billion years, anything can happen", right?

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  Whether anyone finds it convenient or not is irrelevant because reality does not conform to our feeling states.

It doesn't conform to the observational evidence, either.

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  It is what it is regardless of what we think about it. A is A whether we like it or not, remember?

Of course but the question is, "Is it A?" Consider

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  On your view, probably because you have no theory of concepts to speak of, if we can't see something, we can't know about it, unless it is your God (special pleading anyone?).

Actually, it isn't special pleading, because there is a certain methodology that is used when it comes finding truth value when it comes to empirical things..and that is the scientific method.

Science is supposed to be based on observation, repeated experiement, and predictions.

You've never observed macroevolution, there is no experiment that will get you macro results, and there is no way to predict when the next "change" will occur.

Now sure, you can believe whatever the hell you want, it just isn't "science" No

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  This completely disregards the conceptual level of consciousness. This completely disregards reason, which is the conceptual faculty. It's the means by which we Humans can extend our knowledge beyond the perceptual level. It's why we are able to rule out a creator God as a possibility.

Huh

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  We do this by looking at reality, identifying and integrating what we perceive into concepts, and integrating concepts to form general principles. This is known as induction. Then we apply those general principles, you know, like the POE, to specific cases and that is called deduction. Conceptualization from perception, induction and deduction are the methods that reason uses to validate knowledge.

And?

(11-02-2016 01:52 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  But you won't find any of this in the Bible. It has nothing to say on these subjects. It leaves the believer in the dark when it comes to epistemology. Why would it when it endorses faith.

The Bible doesn't speak as if God/Jesus are both just mere possibilities or some hypothethical situations...the Bible speaks of God/Jesus as if they are LIVING REALITIES. And it should, considering the arguments for the existence of God/Jesus are irrefutable.

You find these collection of books, that there isn't perfect reason to believe what they account actually happened, as better than demonstrable testing that doesn't claim absolute confirmation. Because your idea is that since these books claim these things are true realities.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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12-02-2016, 09:25 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(12-02-2016 07:46 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  did you not see what I posted, a birds are dinosaurs so there is that, I mean just saying.

Smh.

(12-02-2016 07:46 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well I will give you a few points for not using observe. Well it just so happened to take a few million years yes. after all traits do accumulate over time.

In a few million years, who knows, humans may become birds Thumbsup

(12-02-2016 07:46 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Archaeopteryx's reptile features

Premaxilla and maxilla are not horn-covered.

Trunk region vertebra are free.

Bones are pneumatic.

Pubic shafts with a plate-like, and slightly angled transverse cross-section

Cerebral hemispheres elongate, slender and cerebellum is situated behind the mid-brain and doesn't overlap it from behind or press down on it.

Neck attaches to skull from the rear as in dinosaurs not from below as in non-aquatic modern birds.

Center of cervical vertebrae have simple concave articular facets.

Long bony tail with many free vertebrae up to tip (no pygostyle).

Premaxilla and maxilla bones bear teeth.

Ribs slender, without joints or uncinate processes and do not articulate with the sternum.

Pelvic girdle and femur joint is archosaurian rather than avian (except for the backward pointing pubis as mentioned above).

The Sacrum (the vertebrae developed for the attachment of pelvic girdle) occupies 6 vertebra.

Metacarpals (hand) free (except 3rd metacarpal), wrist hand joint flexible.

Nasal opening far forward, separated from the eye by a large preorbital fenestra (hole).


Deltoid ridge of the humerus faces anteriorly as do the radial and ulnar condyles.

Claws on 3 unfused digits.

The fibula is equal in length to the tibia in the leg.

Metatarsals (foot bones) free.

Gastralia present.

Archaeopteryx's avian features

Opposable hallux (big toe).

Pubis elongate and directed backward.

feathers




And where is the transitional fossil that preceded archeo? Consider

(12-02-2016 07:46 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Projection much. We ain't like creationist bro, we don't care if it is a transitional fossil or not. In fact when they found it nobody believed it was, until they studied it and realized they were wrong. Nice try though, A for effort. Wink

Transitional fossils are a necessity to the theory.

(12-02-2016 07:46 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  You finally got something right. Evolution does not disprove yahweh, history does. And I don't see the sun either because I spend my days sitting in a dark room working out and playing my konpyu-ta- games, but just because I don't see something doesn't mean it is not there, just means you are to lazy to see it.

Well, unfortunately for you, any scientific theory requires observational evidence.
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12-02-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(12-02-2016 09:25 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Well I will give you a few points for not using observe. Well it just so happened to take a few million years yes. after all traits do accumulate over time.

In a few million years, who knows, humans may become birds Thumbsup
[/quote]

No, that vastly unlikely. You'd know that if you understood any science.

Quote:And where is the transitional fossil that preceded archeo? Consider

Do you somehow believe that every animal fossilized or that every fossil; has been discovered?
Or do you just make stupid, ignorant statements so that you don't have to actually consider the evidence?

Quote:Transitional fossils are a necessity to the theory.

Every fossil is a transitional fossil. Evolution doesn't stop, it is ongoing.

Quote:Well, unfortunately for you, any scientific theory requires observational evidence.

There are mountains of evidence, you simply refuse to look at it.

You are a sad little man.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-02-2016, 09:46 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(11-02-2016 07:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  Hey, clown, here's the evidence.

Look everyone, Chas wants to play the "He posts a link, and I DON'T click it" game.

I will gladly oblige.

(11-02-2016 07:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  But you are fucking ignorant, so there's that. Drinking Beverage

Nothing else needs to be said, then Thumbsup

(11-02-2016 07:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, it's a bit inconvenient which is one reason it took so long to figure it out.

Here is one thing it didn't take me long to figure out...I kinda figured it out a longgg time ago. I came to the realization that dogs produce dogs, cats produce cats, fish produce fish.

I didnt take me long to figure it out. I figured it out when I was about...6-7 years old. It was really that simple. Now, as an adult, I still don't see anything contrary to what I figured so long ago.

But apparently, some people do.

(11-02-2016 07:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  According to the fossil eviednce

Fossils only show that once living organisms have long since died. Anything about so called "changes" in fossils is something that you've added to the exhibit, not what the exhibit says.

(11-02-2016 07:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  and according to the DNA evidence.

Any similarites in DNA could be evidence of common DESIGNER, not common ANCESTOR. The same guy is using the same genetic material as the building blocks to his creation. The wood to build a house can be the same wood used to build a desk...that doesn't mean that over a billion years, the wood tree will gradually become a house or a desk...it means that the same engineer/builder used the same material to create diversity in the objects.

(11-02-2016 07:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your simple mind does not appear capable of anything other than ignorant absolutes.

It is simple, actually, I see what looks like a bird, with teeth. So, I am concluding that the archeo was a "bird with teeth".

It is really as simple as that. The evolutionist is the one that complicates things with dumb and unproven theories.

(11-02-2016 07:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  No, the evidence indicates it, that is why it is a fact.

It isn't a fact because it is a fact...it is a fact because for you, it has to be a fact. It has to be a fact to you because if you conclude anything contrary to it, that opens up the door for a whole lot of things that you aren't comfortable with.
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12-02-2016, 10:00 AM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2016 11:56 AM by Call_of_the_Wild.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(12-02-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, that vastly unlikely. You'd know that if you understood any science.

Birds becoming reptiles is about as unlikely as humans becoming birds.

(12-02-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  Do you somehow believe that every animal fossilized or that every fossil; has been discovered?

No, but I "somehow" believe that based on all of the "evoluton" that has taken place since life formed on earth, and all of the fossilization that has taken place since then...we should have a vast more amount of transitional fossils than we currently do.

Instead, what we have is the fossilized remains of animals in their full forms. No transitonal fossils anywhere.

*Coughs* (cambrian explosion) Laugh out load

(12-02-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  Or do you just make stupid, ignorant statements so that you don't have to actually consider the evidence?

Anyone else notice that when it comes to evolution, Chas suddenly starts making longer posts than his typical two-sentence pile up bullshit?

Whats the matter, touching a nerve? I guess when you talk against someones RELIGION, it strikes a nerve.

That is all evolution is, a religion for the naturalist.

(12-02-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  Every fossil is a transitional fossil.

Then there was never a point in mentioning anything about a "missing link", then? If every fossil is transitional, then why focus on one specific one? Makes no sense.

And besides, above, you were just asking "Do you somehow believe that every animal fossilized or that every fossil; has been discovered?"

If every fossil is transitional, then it really doesn't matter whether or no "every fossils has been discovered", because once you've found one, you've found a transitional fossil.

Again, makes no sense.
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12-02-2016, 10:46 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(12-02-2016 10:00 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, that vastly unlikely. You'd know that if you understood any science.

Birds becoming reptiles is about as unlikely as humans becoming birds.

(12-02-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  Do you somehow believe that every animal fossilized or that every fossil; has been discovered?

No, but I "somehow" believe that based on all of the "evoluton" that has taken place since life formed on earth, and all of the fossilization that has taken place since then...we should have a vast more amount of transitional fossils than we currently due.

Instead, what we have is the fossilized remains of animals in their full forms. No transitonal fossils anywhere.

*Coughs* (cambrian explosion) Laugh out load

(12-02-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  Or do you just make stupid, ignorant statements so that you don't have to actually consider the evidence?

Anyone else notice that when it comes to evolution, Chas suddenly starts making longer posts than his typical two-sentence pile up bullshit?

Whats the matter, touching a nerve? I guess when you talk against someones RELIGION, it strikes a nerve.

That is all evolution is, a religion for the naturalist.

(12-02-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  Every fossil is a transitional fossil.

Then there was never a point in mentioning anything about a "missing link", then? If every fossil is transitional, then why focus on one specific one? Makes no sense.

And besides, above, you were just asking "Do you somehow believe that every animal fossilized or that every fossil; has been discovered?"

If every fossil is transitional, then it really doesn't matter whether or no "every fossils has been discovered", because once you've found one, you've found a transitional fossil.

Again, makes no sense.

Trying to converse with you is like trying to reason with a bratty child.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-02-2016, 11:17 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(12-02-2016 10:00 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(12-02-2016 09:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, that vastly unlikely. You'd know that if you understood any science.

Birds becoming reptiles is about as unlikely as humans becoming birds.

Your basis for this thought conclusion is???

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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