Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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04-10-2015, 07:54 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-10-2015 12:48 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 11:36 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  That would set up an infinite regress. Do you think that is possible?

That's cute, assuming Alla is capable of independent thought! Good one! Laugh out load

I don't really know her. Never have really dealt with Mormons before although some very attractive young Mormon ladies came to my house once and I was tempted to invite them in for coffee.

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04-10-2015, 08:48 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-10-2015 11:36 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 09:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  I know but I give you an advice what to tell those who claim such things about God(whatever their God is).
Yes, this is what I am saying. God of our world is created by His God.
And that God is created by another God.

That would set up an infinite regress. Do you think that is possible?

It's always turtles all the way down with Alla- ALL THE WAY DOWN......

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Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

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04-10-2015, 12:45 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-10-2015 08:48 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 11:36 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  That would set up an infinite regress. Do you think that is possible?

It's always turtles all the way down with Alla- ALL THE WAY DOWN......

[Image: turtles-all-the-way-down.png]

Yeah, we are right back at the universe having no cause then aren't we.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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04-10-2015, 02:15 PM (This post was last modified: 04-10-2015 02:23 PM by Alla.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(03-10-2015 11:36 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  That would set up an infinite regress. Do you think that is possible?
Everything is possible. I don't know. But this is what I do know from the revelations that God of our world gave through His prophets:

1)There is no such thing as the first God and there is no such thing as the last God in infinite and eternal space.
2)Each God has His/Her own Gods who created them and each God has own worlds.
3)Each God is organized from matter that is eternal. Each God has to pass different stages before He or She has godhood.
4)To become God(to have godhood) means to have eternal life which means to have eternal progression which means increase in glory(worlds and posterity).
5)God revealed that there is eternal un-organized matter. There is no cause for it. It was never created it will never be destroyed. Gods only know how to use it and to organize it.
They take un-organized physical matter, organize it and then they give it a spirit. For example, they take physical Earth and give it spirit. This way Earth has intelligence. When Earth has intelligence it has capacity to obey eternal laws, laws which were never created by anybody.
Gods watch how Earth obeys these laws. If it obeys, Gods say: it is good. If something doesn't obey these eternal laws then the consequence is self-destruction or destruction.

So, eternal un-organized physical matter and un-organized spirit matter(intelligence) are independent from each other. They were never created.
And there are Gods(intelligences). They work with those two matters for their own purposes. Because Gods give intelligence to many things all those things act intelligently or they govern themselves.
Gods only observe how everything works. If Gods are satisfied They say: it is good.
That is why we don't see God's involvement in this world.
The same is with us. Gods give us intelligence and eternal laws which lead us to eternal progression and then we govern ourselves. When we obey laws Gods say: it is good. If we don't obey we govern ourselves towards self-destruction or towards destruction.

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04-10-2015, 04:27 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-10-2015 02:15 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 11:36 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  That would set up an infinite regress. Do you think that is possible?
Everything is possible. I don't know. But this is what I do know from the revelations that God of our world gave through His prophets:

1)There is no such thing as the first God and there is no such thing as the last God in infinite and eternal space.
2)Each God has His/Her own Gods who created them and each God has own worlds.
3)Each God is organized from matter that is eternal. Each God has to pass different stages before He or She has godhood.
4)To become God(to have godhood) means to have eternal life which means to have eternal progression which means increase in glory(worlds and posterity).
5)God revealed that there is eternal un-organized matter. There is no cause for it. It was never created it will never be destroyed. Gods only know how to use it and to organize it.
They take un-organized physical matter, organize it and then they give it a spirit. For example, they take physical Earth and give it spirit. This way Earth has intelligence. When Earth has intelligence it has capacity to obey eternal laws, laws which were never created by anybody.
Gods watch how Earth obeys these laws. If it obeys, Gods say: it is good. If something doesn't obey these eternal laws then the consequence is self-destruction or destruction.

So, eternal un-organized physical matter and un-organized spirit matter(intelligence) are independent from each other. They were never created.
And there are Gods(intelligences). They work with those two matters for their own purposes. Because Gods give intelligence to many things all those things act intelligently or they govern themselves.
Gods only observe how everything works. If Gods are satisfied They say: it is good.
That is why we don't see God's involvement in this world.
The same is with us. Gods give us intelligence and eternal laws which lead us to eternal progression and then we govern ourselves. When we obey laws Gods say: it is good. If we don't obey we govern ourselves towards self-destruction or towards destruction.

That's very interesting. It certainly is very different from what other Christians say.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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04-10-2015, 08:54 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
Yes, it is very different. That is why I wanted to know more about this religion. That is why many Christians say that we are not Christians. But they are wrong. They are very wrong. Truth about nature of God was distorted. But God restored it.
My favorite parts of the Gospel are
1) that I lived with God Heavenly Father before I came on Earth and it was my choice to come here. Nobody forced me to be here and to learn good and evil.
2) those who didn't have an opportunity in this life to hear true Gospel, can have this opportunity in spirit world(place where spirits of dead wait for the resurrection)
3) what will happen to us after the Judgment Day. It is not just hell or heaven. God loves all His children and He will show mercy to all His children. And we all deserve some rewards. Different rewards.

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05-10-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-10-2015 08:54 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, it is very different. That is why I wanted to know more about this religion. That is why many Christians say that we are not Christians. But they are wrong. They are very wrong. Truth about nature of God was distorted. But God restored it.
My favorite parts of the Gospel are
1) that I lived with God Heavenly Father before I came on Earth and it was my choice to come here. Nobody forced me to be here and to learn good and evil.
2) those who didn't have an opportunity in this life to hear true Gospel, can have this opportunity in spirit world(place where spirits of dead wait for the resurrection)
3) what will happen to us after the Judgment Day. It is not just hell or heaven. God loves all His children and He will show mercy to all His children. And we all deserve some rewards. Different rewards.

This is all just faith based belief. I'm trying to see if the idea of an infinite regress is rational or not. I don't think it is and I was hoping you would provide some kind of argument for how an infinite regress of causes could be possible.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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05-10-2015, 09:55 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(04-10-2015 02:15 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(03-10-2015 11:36 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  That would set up an infinite regress. Do you think that is possible?
Everything is possible. I don't know. But this is what I do know from the revelations that God of our world gave through His prophets:

1)There is no such thing as the first God and there is no such thing as the last God in infinite and eternal space.
2)Each God has His/Her own Gods who created them and each God has own worlds.
3)Each God is organized from matter that is eternal. Each God has to pass different stages before He or She has godhood.
4)To become God(to have godhood) means to have eternal life which means to have eternal progression which means increase in glory(worlds and posterity).
5)God revealed that there is eternal un-organized matter. There is no cause for it. It was never created it will never be destroyed. Gods only know how to use it and to organize it.
They take un-organized physical matter, organize it and then they give it a spirit. For example, they take physical Earth and give it spirit. This way Earth has intelligence. When Earth has intelligence it has capacity to obey eternal laws, laws which were never created by anybody.
Gods watch how Earth obeys these laws. If it obeys, Gods say: it is good. If something doesn't obey these eternal laws then the consequence is self-destruction or destruction.

So, eternal un-organized physical matter and un-organized spirit matter(intelligence) are independent from each other. They were never created.
And there are Gods(intelligences). They work with those two matters for their own purposes. Because Gods give intelligence to many things all those things act intelligently or they govern themselves.
Gods only observe how everything works. If Gods are satisfied They say: it is good.
That is why we don't see God's involvement in this world.
The same is with us. Gods give us intelligence and eternal laws which lead us to eternal progression and then we govern ourselves. When we obey laws Gods say: it is good. If we don't obey we govern ourselves towards self-destruction or towards destruction.

Again with the god presumptions? Still no proof hu?


The initial cause does not need to be intelligent or conscious. It does not need to exist once it executes the event.

The first cause cannot be supernatural because it is by definition a natural event.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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05-10-2015, 10:23 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-10-2015 09:32 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  I'm trying to see if the idea of an infinite regress is rational or not. I don't think it is and I was hoping you would provide some kind of argument for how an infinite regress of causes could be possible.

It isn't valid either way to describe conditions beyond those observable in such terms. The alternative to an infinite "causal" regress is an infinite "temporal" regress, in a context where neither causality nor time possess any meaning.

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05-10-2015, 02:34 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-10-2015 10:23 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(05-10-2015 09:32 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  I'm trying to see if the idea of an infinite regress is rational or not. I don't think it is and I was hoping you would provide some kind of argument for how an infinite regress of causes could be possible.

It isn't valid either way to describe conditions beyond those observable in such terms. The alternative to an infinite "causal" regress is an infinite "temporal" regress, in a context where neither causality nor time possess any meaning.

That's true. Time before the universe is just as much of a stolen concept as causality is. I just wanted to see if she would attempt to give me anything besides her faith.

Here list reminds me of a woman I met several years ago. She had been going through some tough times including heavy drug use and she started looking into religion. she chose the Mormon faith because she said it would allow her to be with her family in Heaven. As if her likes or dislikes would would make it all true.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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