Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
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06-03-2016, 09:41 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-03-2016 06:39 PM)unfogged Wrote:  You are keeping him busy in one little corner of the forum and for that I thank you. Your sacrifice has not gone unnoticed.

Yeah, and we can all agree that it is for the best...we just disagree on WHY it is for the best Cool
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06-03-2016, 09:45 AM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-03-2016 03:41 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  You made no real indications of these supposed "obvious." That's simply reworking one's claim, but besides that, so now God is not on this planet? Another strangely contrasting concept.

God is omnipresent.

(05-03-2016 03:41 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  The only obvious thing is you don't actually understand what it is you're saying when it comes down to details. You just throw shit out your head and think you have some profound knowledge beyond it. But it's so flawed beyond every idea that you think.

Flawed in what way?

(05-03-2016 03:41 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  And as I've said, what fears or mysteries do you think that are real that prevents you from being able to see simply just 1 more step beyond this false barrier of "god" being "the" uncaused cause if you think there MUST be an uncaused cause?

I don't understand the question.
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06-03-2016, 12:32 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
All a bunch of ignorant drivel.

Sitting is an ACT. That REQUIRES time, a priori.
YOU can't "be sitting" in the absence of time. Time does not exist alone. The only kind of time we know about, is SPACETIME. He has no evidence for anything else. He's in this SO FAR over his fool head, it's really rather sad. He sounds more desperate to make sense of his shit, with ever post.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-03-2016, 12:44 PM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2016 01:04 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
Give it up, Wail of the Child.
What appears "logical" to the human brain, has been proven to NOT be the nature of ultimate reality. You're uselessly spinning your wheels. You maybe should have taken the extra day in the 2 day apologetics seminar, when you learned your nonsense, instead of just the first day where they made you memorize shit to say to atheists.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-03-2016, 02:23 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  First off, I didn't say that there was a "moment" in which you could be said to be sitting in the chair..and not only DIDN'T I say it, but I explicitly said ["Time doesn't exist, does it? No, because there was no moment preceding your sitting...therefore, there can be no moment AFTER your sitting.'

Which is my point. You then turn around and say that, not only have you been sitting in the chair for eternity (which requires the existence of time), but that you are then capable of standing, which somehow creates time.

Your premises are contradictory, your argument is incoherent, and you do not understand what time is.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Or that it popped into being uncaused out of nothing. You said that, didn't you?

Quite. And yet you seem incapable of actually addressing it.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Nonsense. If a horse popped into your living room right now, it would be coming into existence ex nihilo

That is not what "ex nihilo" means, unless you are implying that the matter that the horse is made out of itself only came into existence at that time.

Which does not happen. That's rather the entire point. It doesn't happen within space-time, so any claim that it follows the same rules as ex materia is bare assertion.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  That is the price of atheism right there.

Precisely backwards. This is not the "price" of anything. It is the reality that leads to the conclusion of atheism.

Even theists understand this, on some level. Ultimately, the only reason for God himself existing is "because".

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Um, you are the one with the fantasy because what you believe is worse than magic. When a magician pulls a rabbit out of the hat, at least we can say that the magician caused the rabbit to appear. On your view, the rabbit just popped into being uncaused, out of nothing. No magician, no hat whatsoever. The rabbit just popped into existence.

Wow.

Wow indeed. What the hell are you on about?

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Who is smarter, the human beings with vision and intelligence, or a process (nature) with no vision, or intelligence?

Intelligence is not the issue. The genetic algorithm functions without any need for an intelligent agency. In fact, in many instances, it can produce things better than a human's creations - this is why it has been adapted for use in computer programming, to produce algorithms more efficient than what a programmer could create directly.

But then, since you don't understand what the phrase "genetic algorithm" means, this is all going over your head.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  So what were the sensory organs "before" they began their evolution to more sophisticate forms?

I literally just answered that in the section that you quoted. Read before responding.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  So, basically...a mindless and blind process is the one that created minds, and vision??

Yes.

And again, your personal incredulity is not an argument.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(05-03-2016 03:00 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Only in the sense that bits within a computer are forming into an image of an apple to produce a .jpg of one.

Computers were designed, sir. Faulty comparison fallacy.

The comparison has nothing to do with the origins. It deals only with the ability for systems, such as brains and computers, to create abstract representations. In fact, it is about as far from a false comparison as it is possible to be, as the brain is literally a computer - just an organic one, rather than an artificial one.

And before you start screeching about that, this is another thing that we know to be true, and is trivially easy to demonstrate. The brain meets the strict mathematical definition of "computer". It can demonstrably compute, because it can emulate the actions of a Turing machine. It is a computer.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  None of the irrelevant links you posted had anything to do with inanimate material producing or being the origin of thoughts.

Except the Blue Brain Project and integrated information theory, both of which explicitly deal with this.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Instead of the mumbo jumbo generalities, how about some specifics?

This has been done so many times that it's getting silly. Re-read my previous posts.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I don't know which "reformulated visions" he is talking about. I'd need to get the entire context.

Then Google it, you lazy bum.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  Um, no..in philosophy.

Philosophy of religion, Call.

His degree is in apologetics.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I asked you a question, sir.

And I told you that I'm not going to play stupid time-wasting games. Present your evidence or get out.

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  I will answer my own question, since you didn't. According to Penrose's calculations and also the independent values of the physical constants (on their own merit), the entropy had to be low.

...And?

(06-03-2016 09:37 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(05-03-2016 03:00 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Yes. The Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

What does Bret Hart have to do with anything? Laugh out load

Ladies and gentlemen, Call of the Wild's understanding of logic in one sentence.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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06-03-2016, 02:26 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(06-03-2016 12:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Give it up, Wail of the Child.
What appears "logical" to the human brain, has been proven to NOT be the nature of ultimate reality.

Quite.

Of course, what actually is logical has a very, very good track record of being what is actually true, and when it isn't, it's demonstrably a flaw with the application rather than the process itself - incomplete information, fallacies in reasoning, and so on. It's just that humans, as Call has so generously deigned to prove for us, are, as a rule, terrible at it.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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06-03-2016, 02:36 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(06-03-2016 02:26 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(06-03-2016 12:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Give it up, Wail of the Child.
What appears "logical" to the human brain, has been proven to NOT be the nature of ultimate reality.

Quite.

Of course, what actually is logical has a very, very good track record of being what is actually true, and when it isn't, it's demonstrably a flaw with the application rather than the process itself - incomplete information, fallacies in reasoning, and so on. It's just that humans, as Call has so generously deigned to prove for us, are, as a rule, terrible at it.

I'll have to think about that one. You may be right.
I see it more as "applicable" (or not). Of course WITH EVIDENCE, it's all logical. Logic never predicted Uncertainty, and Relativity etc, (and as i see it, "no one reference point for space time" seems rather illogical).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-03-2016, 02:45 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(05-03-2016 03:55 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(05-03-2016 03:51 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Why are you guys still interacting at all with this buffoon?

Because I am both a masochist and a megalomaniac.

You make a painfully arrogant argument. Drinking Beverage

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-03-2016, 02:46 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(06-03-2016 09:41 AM)Call_of_the_Wild Wrote:  
(05-03-2016 06:39 PM)unfogged Wrote:  You are keeping him busy in one little corner of the forum and for that I thank you. Your sacrifice has not gone unnoticed.

Yeah, and we can all agree that it is for the best...we just disagree on WHY it is for the best Cool

Oh I'm pretty sure we all agree on WHY, you included.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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06-03-2016, 04:42 PM
RE: Who Created The Supernatual Realm.
(06-03-2016 02:36 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I'll have to think about that one. You may be right.
I see it more as "applicable" (or not). Of course WITH EVIDENCE, it's all logical. Logic never predicted Uncertainty, and Relativity etc, (and as i see it, "no one reference point for space time" seems rather illogical).

Well, again, it all comes down to evidence. Einstein didn't just pluck the theory of relativity out of a hat. It was the result of a series of studies of the mathematics behind physics. I would argue that relativity is entirely logical.

It is, however, extremely counterintuitive, which I think is what you were trying to say to begin with. "Logical" and "what the average human mind would come up with" are rarely the same thing.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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