Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
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29-12-2015, 06:45 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 06:23 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 05:57 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Paul and Jesus contradicted each other! Which one is your false prophet...Paul or Jeebus?

Neither.
The key to understanding the relationship between the Christian and the Law is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15).

In place of the Old Testament law, Christians are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor. At the same time, to say that the Old Testament law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some of it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.

“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.

Wow that is cool that you know the mind of God so well! Wow, Just Wow!
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29-12-2015, 06:49 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 06:23 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  We are to love God and love our neighbors.

What does the God bit add? Is it like one of those extended warranty ripoffs?

#sigh
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29-12-2015, 06:51 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 06:23 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 05:57 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Paul and Jesus contradicted each other! Which one is your false prophet...Paul or Jeebus?

Neither.
The key to understanding the relationship between the Christian and the Law is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15).

In place of the Old Testament law, Christians are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor. At the same time, to say that the Old Testament law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some of it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.

“This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.

"The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time."

Wrong! Bad fail! Ask any true Jew today. The Jewish authors of the OT thought their rules were to last forever:

“You are to observe the statutes and ritual, the law and the commandments which he has given you in writing and to which you are always to conform” (2 Kings 17:37, NJB.)

In the New Testament, the author of James, who may well have been Jesus’ brother, wrote:

“You see, anyone who keeps the whole of the Law but trips up on a single point, is still guilty of breaking it all” (James 2:10, NJB.)
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29-12-2015, 06:54 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 06:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The ancient role of a prophet in Hebrew culture was to interpret the words or will of their god to the people OF THEIR OWN DAY. NOT to predict the future.

A prophet in the Old Testament was someone who was used by God to communicate His message to the world. Prophets were also called “seers” because they could “see,” spiritually speaking, as God gave them insight (1 Samuel 9:9). The prophets can be divided into the “writing prophets” such as Isaiah, Daniel, Amos, and Malachi; and the “non-writing prophets” such as Gad (1 Samuel 22:5), Nathan (1 Chronicles 17:1), and Elijah (1 Kings 18:36). There are also some anonymous prophets in the Old Testament, such as the unnamed prophet in Judges 6:7–10.

A prophet was required to deliver God’s message accurately. The prophet Micaiah put it well: “As surely as the Lord lives, I can tell [the king] only what the Lord tells me.” Those who, like Jeremiah, tried to keep silent found they could not (Jeremiah 20:9). Those who, like Jonah, tried to avoid their responsibility were corrected (Jonah 1:3–4). Others, like the unnamed prophet from Judah who directly disobeyed the divine command, lost their lives (1 Kings 13:15–24).


I agree with your statement about prophets "predicting" the future. A prophet in the Old Testament only relayed information that God gave them. Sometimes, this information concerned events that were soon to happen; for example, Joseph informed Pharaoh of seven years of plenty followed by seven years of famine in Egypt, events that occurred within the next fourteen years (Genesis 41:25–36). Many other prophets received information from God on things in the distant future; for example, many of Daniel’s and Zechariah’s prophecies concern the second coming of Christ and other end-times events (Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 12:10).

All the prophets did was relay information. They did not predict anything. It is the fundamentalists and amateur scholars who try make predictions based off of prophecy.
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29-12-2015, 06:57 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 06:07 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 05:27 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  For some reason my sarcasm meter just spiked...strange. I know you think it is all hocus pocus. But to answer your question about "How can we tell the difference?" The bible gives specific instructions on how to identify false prophets.

Jesus warned us that “false Christs and false prophets” will come and will attempt to deceive even God’s elect (Matthew 24:23-27; see also 2 Peter 3:3 and Jude 17-18). The best way to guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers is to know the truth. To spot a counterfeit, study the real thing. Any believer who “correctly handles the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15) and who makes a careful study of the Bible can identify false doctrine. For example, a believer who has read the activities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matthew 3:16-17 will immediately question any doctrine that denies the Trinity. Therefore, step one is to study the Bible and judge all teaching by what the Scripture says.

Jesus said “a tree is recognized by its fruit” (Matthew 12:33). When looking for “fruit,” here are three specific tests to apply to any teacher to determine the accuracy of his or her teaching:

1) What does this teacher say about Jesus? In Matthew 16:15-16, Jesus asks, “Who do you say I am?” Peter answers, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,” and for this answer Peter is called “blessed.” In 2 John 9, we read, “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.” In other words, Jesus Christ and His work of redemption is of utmost importance; beware of anyone who denies that Jesus is equal with God, who downplays Jesus’ sacrificial death, or who rejects Jesus’ humanity. First John 2:22 says, “Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.”

2) Does this teacher preach the gospel? The gospel is defined as the good news concerning Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection, according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). As nice as they sound, the statements “God loves you,” “God wants us to feed the hungry,” and “God wants you to be wealthy” are not the complete message of the gospel. As Paul warns in Galatians 1:7, “Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.” No one, not even a great preacher, has the right to change the message that God gave us. “If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galatians 1:9).

3) Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord? Speaking of false teachers, Jude 11 says, “They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.” In other words, a false teacher can be known by his pride (Cain’s rejection of God’s plan), greed (Balaam’s prophesying for money), and rebellion (Korah’s promotion of himself over Moses). Jesus said to beware of such people and that we would know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20).

For further study, review those books of the Bible that were written specifically to combat false teaching within the church: Galatians, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. It is often difficult to spot a false teacher/false prophet. Satan masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), and his ministers masquerade as servants of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:15). Only by being thoroughly familiar with the truth will we be able to recognize a counterfeit.

As I stated earlier. I am not expecting you to believe the bible. I am only giving you this information to answer your question on how Christians can tell the difference between a real prophetic omens and that from false prophets.

The best way to guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers is to know the truth.

Agreed.

"To spot a counterfeit, study the real thing. Any believer who “correctly handles the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15) and who makes a careful study of the Bible can identify false doctrine."

One teeny weeny problem with your over simplistic assessment of the way things are. You are assuming the babble tells the truth. It does not. The babble is riddled with lies. It is also internally inconsistent. SmartassDrinking Beverage
I am not saying you have to believe scripture but Christians do. This is what scripture says about identifying false prophets. Since Christians believe scripture, this is what they use to determine if a preacher is someone they can trust. That is all I am saying.
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29-12-2015, 07:08 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 06:54 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 06:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The ancient role of a prophet in Hebrew culture was to interpret the words or will of their god to the people OF THEIR OWN DAY. NOT to predict the future.

A prophet in the Old Testament was someone who was used by God to communicate His message to the world. Prophets were also called “seers” because they could “see,” spiritually speaking, as God gave them insight (1 Samuel 9:9). The prophets can be divided into the “writing prophets” such as Isaiah, Daniel, Amos, and Malachi; and the “non-writing prophets” such as Gad (1 Samuel 22:5), Nathan (1 Chronicles 17:1), and Elijah (1 Kings 18:36). There are also some anonymous prophets in the Old Testament, such as the unnamed prophet in Judges 6:7–10.

A prophet was required to deliver God’s message accurately. The prophet Micaiah put it well: “As surely as the Lord lives, I can tell [the king] only what the Lord tells me.” Those who, like Jeremiah, tried to keep silent found they could not (Jeremiah 20:9). Those who, like Jonah, tried to avoid their responsibility were corrected (Jonah 1:3–4). Others, like the unnamed prophet from Judah who directly disobeyed the divine command, lost their lives (1 Kings 13:15–24).


I agree with your statement about prophets "predicting" the future. A prophet in the Old Testament only relayed information that God gave them. Sometimes, this information concerned events that were soon to happen; for example, Joseph informed Pharaoh of seven years of plenty followed by seven years of famine in Egypt, events that occurred within the next fourteen years (Genesis 41:25–36). Many other prophets received information from God on things in the distant future; for example, many of Daniel’s and Zechariah’s prophecies concern the second coming of Christ and other end-times events (Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 12:10).

All the prophets did was relay information. They did not predict anything. It is the fundamentalists and amateur scholars who try make predictions based off of prophecy.


"I agree with your statement about prophets "predicting" the future."
Thumbsup

"Many other prophets received information from God on things in the distant future; for example, many of Daniel’s and Zechariah’s prophecies concern the second coming of Christ and other end-times events" (Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 12:10).
Huh

"They did not predict anything."
Thumbsup

"It is the fundamentalists and amateur scholars who try make predictions based off of prophecy." Thumbsup
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29-12-2015, 07:12 PM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2015 09:57 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 06:57 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 06:07 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  The best way to guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers is to know the truth.

Agreed.

"To spot a counterfeit, study the real thing. Any believer who “correctly handles the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15) and who makes a careful study of the Bible can identify false doctrine."

One teeny weeny problem with your over simplistic assessment of the way things are. You are assuming the babble tells the truth. It does not. The babble is riddled with lies. It is also internally inconsistent. SmartassDrinking Beverage
I am not saying you have to believe scripture but Christians do. This is what scripture says about identifying false prophets. Since Christians believe scripture, this is what they use to determine if a preacher is someone they can trust. That is all I am saying.

Ok.

My points are that
1. Scripture is not discussing the truth ie what happened, and
2. Scripture is inconsistent.

Hence Christians have no legitimate basis for believing Scripture.
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29-12-2015, 07:26 PM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2015 07:34 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 06:54 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 06:06 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The ancient role of a prophet in Hebrew culture was to interpret the words or will of their god to the people OF THEIR OWN DAY. NOT to predict the future.

A prophet in the Old Testament was someone who was used by God to communicate His message to the world. Prophets were also called “seers” because they could “see,” spiritually speaking, as God gave them insight (1 Samuel 9:9). The prophets can be divided into the “writing prophets” such as Isaiah, Daniel, Amos, and Malachi; and the “non-writing prophets” such as Gad (1 Samuel 22:5), Nathan (1 Chronicles 17:1), and Elijah (1 Kings 18:36). There are also some anonymous prophets in the Old Testament, such as the unnamed prophet in Judges 6:7–10.

A prophet was required to deliver God’s message accurately. The prophet Micaiah put it well: “As surely as the Lord lives, I can tell [the king] only what the Lord tells me.” Those who, like Jeremiah, tried to keep silent found they could not (Jeremiah 20:9). Those who, like Jonah, tried to avoid their responsibility were corrected (Jonah 1:3–4). Others, like the unnamed prophet from Judah who directly disobeyed the divine command, lost their lives (1 Kings 13:15–24).


I agree with your statement about prophets "predicting" the future. A prophet in the Old Testament only relayed information that God gave them. Sometimes, this information concerned events that were soon to happen; for example, Joseph informed Pharaoh of seven years of plenty followed by seven years of famine in Egypt, events that occurred within the next fourteen years (Genesis 41:25–36). Many other prophets received information from God on things in the distant future; for example, many of Daniel’s and Zechariah’s prophecies concern the second coming of Christ and other end-times events (Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 12:10).

All the prophets did was relay information. They did not predict anything. It is the fundamentalists and amateur scholars who try make predictions based off of prophecy.

Well, since sincere Jewish people don't recognize that the writings (said to be the writings of "Daniel" ... and we know much of it was not written in his life-time) speak of the Christian messiah, ....... and they ought to be the experts on the matter, I think claiming they refer to "Christ" is problematic, as clearly he didn't get the job done that Jewish prophets thought would be the role of the "anointed one".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-12-2015, 07:32 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
I enjoy hearing anyone expounding on Daniel and the Revelations! Starting out with the fact that the book is Revelation, not plural. In fact at one time i had Bibles in 8 languages and in only one German was the word Revelation put in the plural!
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29-12-2015, 07:35 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 07:12 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 06:57 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I am not saying you have to believe scripture but Christians do. This is what scripture says about identifying false prophets. Since Christians believe scripture, this is what they use to determine if a preacher is someone they can trust. That is all I am saying.

Ok.
My points are that
1. Scripture is not discussing the truth ie what happened, and
2. Scripture is inconsistent.

Hence Christians have no legitimate basis for believing Scripture.
Point taken.
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