Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
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29-12-2015, 07:40 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 07:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 06:54 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  A prophet in the Old Testament was someone who was used by God to communicate His message to the world. Prophets were also called “seers” because they could “see,” spiritually speaking, as God gave them insight (1 Samuel 9:9). The prophets can be divided into the “writing prophets” such as Isaiah, Daniel, Amos, and Malachi; and the “non-writing prophets” such as Gad (1 Samuel 22:5), Nathan (1 Chronicles 17:1), and Elijah (1 Kings 18:36). There are also some anonymous prophets in the Old Testament, such as the unnamed prophet in Judges 6:7–10.

A prophet was required to deliver God’s message accurately. The prophet Micaiah put it well: “As surely as the Lord lives, I can tell [the king] only what the Lord tells me.” Those who, like Jeremiah, tried to keep silent found they could not (Jeremiah 20:9). Those who, like Jonah, tried to avoid their responsibility were corrected (Jonah 1:3–4). Others, like the unnamed prophet from Judah who directly disobeyed the divine command, lost their lives (1 Kings 13:15–24).


I agree with your statement about prophets "predicting" the future. A prophet in the Old Testament only relayed information that God gave them. Sometimes, this information concerned events that were soon to happen; for example, Joseph informed Pharaoh of seven years of plenty followed by seven years of famine in Egypt, events that occurred within the next fourteen years (Genesis 41:25–36). Many other prophets received information from God on things in the distant future; for example, many of Daniel’s and Zechariah’s prophecies concern the second coming of Christ and other end-times events (Daniel 12:1; Zechariah 12:10).

All the prophets did was relay information. They did not predict anything. It is the fundamentalists and amateur scholars who try make predictions based off of prophecy.

Well, since sincere Jewish people don't recognize that the writings (said to be the writings of "Daniel" ... and we know much of it was not written in his life-time) speak of the Christian messiah, ....... and they ought to be the experts on the matter, I think claiming they refer to "Christ" is problematic, as clearly he didn't get the job done that Jewish prophets thought would be the role of the "anointed one".
Your statement still does not diminish my point. The legitimacy of Daniel's prophecy does not diminish the point that prophets do not predict the future. They only relay information.
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29-12-2015, 07:45 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
This driveby got a lot of mileage out of one post. Big Grin
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29-12-2015, 07:46 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 07:32 PM)DerFish Wrote:  I enjoy hearing anyone expounding on Daniel and the Revelations! Starting out with the fact that the book is Revelation, not plural. In fact at one time i had Bibles in 8 languages and in only one German was the word Revelation put in the plural!
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29-12-2015, 07:50 PM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2015 07:59 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
I don't need no fucking god. God needs me. And Gods are needy fucking blowhard bastards.

#sigh
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29-12-2015, 07:54 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 07:45 PM)skyking Wrote:  This driveby got a lot of mileage out of one post. Big Grin

Many do. The ensuing discussion amongst ourselves is often invigorating. They are a valuable addition to our ecology. Big Grin

#sigh
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29-12-2015, 08:00 PM (This post was last modified: 31-12-2015 06:58 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 07:40 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 07:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Well, since sincere Jewish people don't recognize that the writings (said to be the writings of "Daniel" ... and we know much of it was not written in his life-time) speak of the Christian messiah, ....... and they ought to be the experts on the matter, I think claiming they refer to "Christ" is problematic, as clearly he didn't get the job done that Jewish prophets thought would be the role of the "anointed one".
Your statement still does not diminish my point. The legitimacy of Daniel's prophecy does not diminish the point that prophets do not predict the future. They only relay information.

I would agree with that, in general, if what was in Daniel was sincerely "relayed" information. Some of it may have been. But a great deal of it was written "post hoc" and is post diction, in an attempt to give it validity, writing as if it were predicting things (some of which the authors got very wrong). The intent of that material may have been intended to support the sincere views of the authors, but today it's called "deception". They had no idea that such careful historical fact-checkers would be looking at what they wrote.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-12-2015, 08:06 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 07:45 PM)skyking Wrote:  This driveby got a lot of mileage out of one post. Big Grin
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29-12-2015, 08:08 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 08:00 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 07:40 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Your statement still does not diminish my point. The legitimacy of Daniel's prophecy does not diminish the point that prophets do not predict the future. They only relay information.

I would agree with that, in general, if what was in Daniel was sincerely "relayed" information. Some of may have been. But a great deal of it was written "post hoc" and is post diction, in an attempt to give it validity, writing as if it were predicting things (some of which the authors got very wrong). The intent of that material may have been intended to support the sincere views of the authors, but today it's called "deception". They had no idea that such careful historical fact-checkers would be looking at what they wrote.
Roger.
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29-12-2015, 08:30 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
To me..what got me started with the OT was which version was even authentic if any of them actually were.
Was it the Babylonian inspired TAL-mud,...was it the middle ages masoretic translation of modern (THEN) hebrew ...or maybe the reworked and heavily edited (with notes in the margins) Transliterations of "newly discovered" coptic works? Was Daniel even real or was he the imagination of some vagabond camel sh*t smoking semite who was attempting to give his group of people a historical legitimacy....in other words was it made up or stolen from other cultures.....
Before my De-conversion I had swayed heavily into apologetic and the more I searched the more I found the entire story...or composition of storie,s to be mere fireside chat and ""story telling".....Fraud....not factual history.

Just my opinion here...
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31-12-2015, 05:48 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 07:40 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 07:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Well, since sincere Jewish people don't recognize that the writings (said to be the writings of "Daniel" ... and we know much of it was not written in his life-time) speak of the Christian messiah, ....... and they ought to be the experts on the matter, I think claiming they refer to "Christ" is problematic, as clearly he didn't get the job done that Jewish prophets thought would be the role of the "anointed one".
Your statement still does not diminish my point. The legitimacy of Daniel's prophecy does not diminish the point that prophets do not predict the future. They only relay information.
They claim to relay information. Claim. I've yet to see a single iota of evidence that shows their "information" came from anywhere other then their ass or the ass of someone writing long after the fact.


As to your "Christians have a way of telling false prophets from really ones"....haha no. First off the methodology for your "system" is nonexistent, could easily produce false-positives, and is entirely opinion based. The source is unreliable, ignorant, and frequently uses known fabrications or outright duplicitous deceptions in it's own "teachings".
There is no corroborative evidence that it works, it relies on frequent fabrication, it's not objective in any way, it's not falsifiable at all, founded entirely on superstition, and it can't be independently verified or verified at all for that matter.
Not only that but.... for fucks sake "Satan" and his followers have access to the exact same source of your "system" (The Bible) as you do. He would know exactly how it works and exactly how to circumvent it. You give your opposition your game plan and your game plan becomes fucking useless. I mean honestly man, it's little things like that that make me roll my eyes at people who believe in Prophecy and that kind of nonsense.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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