Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
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28-12-2015, 07:44 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
I speak English mate. Get over it.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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28-12-2015, 07:47 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(28-12-2015 07:44 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I speak English mate. Get over it.

We're sorry man
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28-12-2015, 07:52 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
God is dog anyway. No matter how you look at it. The thing is, dogs exist. Gods do not.

Anyone idiotic enough to believe in gods is worthy only of contempt in my view.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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28-12-2015, 08:00 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(28-12-2015 07:52 AM)Banjo Wrote:  God is dog anyway. No matter how you look at it. The thing is, dogs exist. Gods do not.

Anyone idiotic enough to believe in gods is worthy only of contempt in my view.

Sorry but saying Yahweh is a dog is a insult to dogs.No

Religion is bullshit. The winner of the last person to post wins thread.Yes
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28-12-2015, 08:01 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(28-12-2015 08:00 AM)Leo Wrote:  
(28-12-2015 07:52 AM)Banjo Wrote:  God is dog anyway. No matter how you look at it. The thing is, dogs exist. Gods do not.

Anyone idiotic enough to believe in gods is worthy only of contempt in my view.

Sorry but saying Yahweh is a dog is a insult to dogs.No

Agreed! Smile

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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28-12-2015, 09:30 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(27-12-2015 05:13 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I was tempted to just delete this wall of copy pasta, but I thought a few of you might have fun tearing this apart.

Aaaaaand.....GO!
Is this one of those religious trolls that I hear so much about?
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28-12-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(27-12-2015 05:33 PM)jennybee Wrote:  I'm eating a burrito. If God was a burrito, he would be this burrito because it is delicious. Hobo
What kind of cheese is on it? Tell me slowly in great detail?Wink
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28-12-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(27-12-2015 06:08 PM)Banjo Wrote:  God is Dog spelled backwards.
Or perhaps dog is god spelled backwards?...
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28-12-2015, 09:44 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(27-12-2015 07:10 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  1. Does God have a name?

In my opinion God's name is not the most important thing. What's more important is the way we cond-*record scratch*

Gee, wow. You OPEN with a question that you deem unimportant? That's not how you draw in an audience. Also, it's an obviously loaded question, and when you come to a board with the word "atheist" in the title it takes great ignorance not to realize that it is a loaded question. After all, asking what God's name is assumes that there exists any god at all, and furthermore that there is only a singular one (hence the capital G and the lack of indefinite article).

So before we can ask this question of yours or any other question, we'd have to ask whether there is a god at all. And since most of us here are skeptics, we also have to ask, "how do we know?"

Reading ahead, you quote Bible verses, suggesting that you think the Bible is a good way to know things like this. This is an odd choice. The Bible's hardly the oldest "holy" book out there, being itself clearly derived from the Babylonian Enuma Elish and also being predated by Hindi, Chinese, and Egyptian systems of worship. Nor is it a particularly accurate one, at least so far as it can be fact-checked. Archeology disputes show that the claims of mass slavery in Egypt are mythical. History disputes the character of Pilate as the Bible depicted it and shows no census requiring Jews to return to their homelands, EVER, much less within a few years of the death of Herod. Astronomy disproves the existence of a firmament and shows it quite impossible for all the stars to ever fall to Earth. On and on and on, science has shown the Bible to be full of errors, errors which no omniscient creator, nor any prophet receiving a true revelation from that creator, nor any actual contemporary of the events with a clear memory of them, could ever make. With all this and more in mind, the choice to believe in the Bible as a source of truth -- especially truths than can be confirmed in no other manner save a blind and gullible faith in that book -- is arbitrary, absurd, obtuse, and risible.

Bearing these first two questions that you quite hastily skipped over in mind, let's go through everything you just said.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  1. Does God have a name?

In my opinion God's name is not the most important thing. What's more important is the way we conduct our lives. However The Creator has given us a name to call him by, thus providing a method to talk to God in a more personal manner.

Although God has many titles, he has only one name. In each language, it is pronounced differently. In English it is usually pronounced “Jehovah.” But some people pronounce it “Yahweh.” (Psalm 83:18)

God’s name has been taken out of many Bibles and replaced with the titles Lord or God. But when the Bible was written, it contained God’s name some 7,000 times. Jesus made God’s name known when he taught people about God. (John 17:26)

I'll agree, the name of a fictional character in a fraudulent work is very unimportant, especially when the character isn't particularly compelling. But it's useful in identifying the work AS a fiction and unraveling the way in which that work was distorted from its origins. For example, God in the Bible is sometimes called Elohim, which was a title from Canaanite religion given to a deity that one has singled out from the larger pantheon as one's particular patron, or sometimes El Elyon or El Shaddai, which was a particular deity in that mythos, rather than Yahweh Sabaoth, who was the war deity (lord of hosts). Going back to the original names that were translated into English is part of the key to unraveling the Bible's true history, and narrative of the early Old Testament (with the Israelites repeatedly turning to worship of Baal and Ashera) when one realizes that Yahweh was a single deity in competition with others in a larger polytheistic pantheon and, more to the point, that the Yahweh priests were in competition with the other priests of the larger religion.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  2. What is God like?

God is love. He cares about us all deeply and wishes that not one of us take the path of destruction. (Peter 3:9) We can discern God’s personality from the things he has created and the emotions we possess. For instance, the variety of fruits, flowers and animals, the beautiful landscapes and the warm sun that accompanies them. Joyful tears, love, kindness, compassion etc etc tells us of his love and wisdom. The size of the universe tells us of his power. (Romans 1:20) Jehovah knows us better than we know ourselves. He knows exactly how many hairs we have on our head. (Luke 12:7)

Jehovah creates rules not for his own benefit, but for ours. If we follow the rules outlined in the Bible. It helps to prevent us from experiencing the pain and darkness of this temporary system of things.

We can learn even more about God’s personality by reading the Bible. For example, it tells us what God likes and what he does not like, how he treats people, and how he reacts in different situations. (Psalm 103:7-10)

So.... in love forgiveness can only be achieved through a bloody, torturous, and wholly gratuitous act of murder and human sacrifice? He wants us to not go on the path of destruction... with him as the destroyer?

Before we can identify his personality in the things this god created, would we not first have to know that he created anything or even existed? The "size" of the universe in the Bible was the firmament. The Bible was off in this guess to the degree of thinking that the Earth was the size of an atom would be off. Every piece of evidence you offer is something that could exist exactly as it does now if there were no god. This is no way of knowing anything. And again, quoting the Bible as proof of the claims of the Bible shows a level of obtuse stupidity worthy of a Monty Python sketch.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  3. How can we draw closer to God?

In-order to draw close to the creator of the universe. We need to try and show Love, Honour, Dignity, Loyalty, Humility, Integrity, and most importantly help out your fellow humans.

Hooray! Humanism! ... oh, wait. Love, honor, dignity, etc aren't good in their own right? The whole point is to selfishly suck up to a fairy tale rather than care about others? Fuck that noise. To quote Hitchens: God poisons everything. There's not a single altruistic action that can't be stolen and rebranded as a selfish, self-serving oblation to a bloodthirsty celestial tyrant. So, points awarded for good ideals, and then promptly rescinded for making them worse by injecting a god into something that was better without one.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Jehovah invites us to draw close to him by speaking to him in prayer. He is interested in us individually. (Psalm 65:2; 145:18) He is willing to forgive. He recognizes our efforts to please him, even if we sometimes fail. So despite our imperfection, we really can enjoy a close relationship with God. (Psalm 103:12-14, James 4:8)

Leaving aside a careful deconstruction of what a monstrous tyrant the character of the Biblical god is (starting with him spurring Caine's effort to please him with a sacrifice of his harvest), there's not a single thing here that isn't quoting from the Bible... which has a very poor track record of accuracy.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  4. Why does God Allow Suffering?
All of Jehovah’s works are perfect; he is not the author of unrighteousness; so he did not create anyone wicked. (Deut. 32:4, Ps. 5:4) The one who became Satan was originally a perfect spirit son of God. When saying that the Devil “did not stand fast in the truth,” Jesus indicated that at one time that one was “in the truth.” (John 8:44) But, as is true of all of God’s intelligent creatures, this spirit son was endowed with free will. He abused his freedom of choice, allowed feelings of self-importance to develop in his heart, began to crave worship that belonged only to God, and so enticed Adam and Eve to listen to him rather than obey God. Thus by his course of action he made himself Satan, which means “adversary.” (Jas. 1:14, 15)

... so if God created something that did not stand fast in truth, would that not be an imperfection? This Bible thing only makes sense if you don't question it. The moment you start asking the most obvious of questions it falls to pieces and is revealed as an assemblage of fictional account, poorly edited and self-contradictory to the point of incoherence.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Why did not God destroy Satan promptly after he rebelled?
Serious issues were raised by Satan: (1) The righteousness and rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty. Was Jehovah withholding from mankind freedom that would contribute to their happiness? Were mankind’s ability to govern their affairs successfully and their continued life truly dependent on their obedience to God? Had Jehovah been dishonest in giving a law that stated that disobedience would lead to their death? (Gen. 2:16, 17, 3:3-5) So, did Jehovah really have the right to rule? (2) The integrity of intelligent creatures toward Jehovah. By the deflection of Adam and Eve the question was raised: Did Jehovah’s servants really obey him out of love or might all of them abandon God and follow the lead being given by Satan? This latter issue was further developed by Satan in the days of Job. (Gen. 3:6, Job 1:8-11, 2:3-5 see also Luke 22:31) These issues could not be settled by merely executing the rebels.

But they could be settled by executing Jesus? How does that make any sense at all? Again, the Bible is nonsense, and so is anything you quote from it.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  5. Is the end of the world really near?

THE BIBLE’S ANSWER: “When you see these things occurring, know that the kingdom of God is near.” (LUKE 21:31)

The Bible prophets were inspired by God to describe conditions that would indicate an imminent end of the world. Consider some of those prophecies and decide for yourself whether they are being fulfilled in our time.

Wars, famines, earthquakes, and epidemics of deadly disease. (Matthew 24:7, Luke 21:11)

Significant increase in crime. (Matthew 24:12)

The ruining of the earth by mankind. (Revelation 11:18)

People who love themselves, money, and pleasures but do not love God. (2 Timothy 3:2, 4)

The breakdown of the family. (2 Timothy 3:2, 3)

General apathy toward the evidence of the approaching end. (Matthew 24:37-39)

The preaching of the good news of God’s Kingdom worldwide. (Matthew 24:14)


As Jesus said, seeing “all these things” lets us know that the end of the world is near. (Matthew 24:33) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that the evidence is convincing, and they share their faith with others by preaching in 236 lands.

Now while we're on the subject of things with a lousy track record, let's look at the Jehovah's Witnesses. I have no doubt that they believe this evidence of an upcoming end of the world is convincing. Belieiving in evidence of an upcoming end of the world is something they have a long history of doing. Jehovah's Witnesses have predicted that Armageddon would occur in:

1914.

1915.

1918.

1920.

1925.

1941.

1975.

1994.

1997.

Given that the world's still here, it's safe to say that the Jehovah's Witnesses don't know shit. It's like a car alarm that after a dozen times you KNOW is a false alarm rather than anything important. It's loud and obnoxious and ruins your day. If the Jehovah's Witnesses were to ever get it right, it would be by sheer luck, like a broken clock that's right twice per day.... except the Jehovah's Witnesses have yet to be right a single time in over a century, so that's an insult to broken clocks. At least they're finally figuring out that it's harder for us to call them out on their crap if they keep their predicted dates vague.

But let's look at the specific predictions. Wars, famines, and earthquakes... when have these things NOT been present? Earth being ruined by mankind... deforestation, overgrazing, and overfarming was happening even before the Bible was written, and hasn't really stopped since. Same for people who love themselves, pleasure, and money. There's always been SOME change in traditional family structure happening that can be pointed to as a breakdown in the family, be it the abandment of polygamy, or the growing inability to rule over the lives of one's children like a tyrant, or the inability to sell one's daughters, or some case of adultery or another. The only two factors you list that haven't been present THE WHOLE ENTIRE TIME are the widespread preaching of the Bible, and the general apathy towards the "evidence". In the case of widespread preaching, it's hard to date this as happening any later than 1800... and it should be noted that North Korea is solid holdout in modern times. And in the case of general apathy.... it's the car alarm, again. At some point you stop listening to that broken thing.

And, again, ALL of this is based on the Bible, and the Bible is demonstrably not a good way to know things.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  6. What happens at the end of the world?

THE BIBLE’S ANSWER: “The world is passing away and so is its desire, but he that does the will of God remains forever.” (1 John 2:17)

“The world” that is to pass away is, not the earth, but the world of mankind whose lives are not in harmony with God’s will. Just as a surgeon might remove a cancerous tumor to save a patient’s life, God will “cut off” the wicked so that good people can truly enjoy life on earth. (Psalm 37:9) In that sense, “the end of the world” is a good thing.

Jesus called that future period “the renewal of all things.” At that time, he will restore humanity to the conditions that God originally intended. (Matthew 19:28) We will then enjoy

A paradise earth with security and prosperity for all. (Isaiah 35:1 Micah 4:4)

Work that is meaningful and satisfying. (Isaiah 65:21-23)

The curing of all disease. (Isaiah 33:24)

The reversal of aging. (Job 33:25)

The resurrection of the dead. (John 5:28, 29)


If we do “the will of God,” what he asks of us, we need not fear the end of the world. Instead, we can look forward to it.

More Bible quotes. Yawn. Come back when you've got some source that DOESN'T think bats are birds and whales are fish.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  7. Conclusion

We must try our best to help out our fellow humans and to love God as Jesus commanded.

Or, you know, help out our fellow human beings regardless of whether we're commanded.

As far as loving God... I've never even met the dude, and celebrity stalking is kinda creepy. If he wants to have a personal relationship with me, I don't have his phone number and he supposedly has mine, so the ball's in his court.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  We need to try and avoid harmful practices such as:
sexual immorality, greed, arrogance, hatred, selfishness, anger etc etc

Oh, wow. Let's see. Where to begin.

Sexual immorality? Whose definition? It used to be considered immoral for even married couples to have sex on Sundays or during the day at all. Is that still a rule? Polygamy USED to be the standard, even in the Bible (which, again, is an absurd book), but now it's seen as immoral.... how do we even decide which standard is the right one?

Greed.... well, I agree excessive greed can be harmful, and I'm not a big fan of it, but if we forsook greed entirely then the whole damn economy would collapse. Talk about end-of-the-world scenarios!

Arrogance. Okay, I'm with this one. How about I start by NOT assuming that there's a singular creator of the universe that regards me as special?

Hatred. Okay, I'll start by not hating the gays, women, infidels or anyone else that god hates. (Yes, hates. The Bible's quite specific about that, if you're into believing that sort of thing, which apparently you are.) Let me know when you catch up with me on that.

Selfishness? Okay, I'll start by having integrity and being kind to others for some reason OTHER than a desire to get into a poorly-conceptualized ideal afterlife.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Save your naughty side for the bedroom with someone you love.

Not the kitchen table? WHAT?

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Greed has crumbled entire empires, how more so can it destroy individuals.

I dunno, I always thought of the ruin of an individual as being somehow less in the way of destruction than the ruin of an entire empire.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Arrogance is a ugly trait and is often used to compensate for lacking confidence or inner-peace. The most respected and talented people are often the most humble.

Which says SO MUCH about the most well-recognized Christian preachers. (Though it's also a tried-and-true technique for manipulating others.)

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Hatred is a horrible trait and leads to nothing good. We must look for the goodness in people and understand we all have feelings, and we're all victims of imperfections that cause us to act in unreasonable ways from time to time.

Agreed.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Selfishness is a lack of love for people. And although in this evil world it can feel like everyone is a backstabbing traitor and the best course of action is to take care of yourself and forget everyone else. We must fight the urge to lose confidence in all human-kind and realize there are loving, awesome people out there who need our help.

Wow. Everyone is a backstabbing traitor? Aren't you a negative Nelly.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Anger is another undesirable trait that solves nothing, and causes unnecessary stress. Passion is a different matter and is admirable.

Makes you wonder why God's always getting angry in the Bible oh wait the book doesn't make any sense right.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  We must try and promote values of righteousness including:
Love, Honour, Dignity, Loyalty, Humility, Integrity, and most importantly help out your fellow humans.

At least this time you left out the "because God" part. So agreed.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Religion, skin colour, wealth, beauty, power etc are irrelevant. Your heart is all that matters

Largely agreed. Wealth and power ARE useful for helping other people, though. Religion seems to get in the way of that.

(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  Please Google JW Bible Answers for accurate information regarding God and Life..

Yeah, thanks, but I think I'll avoid getting my advice on loving people regardless of religion from a group that practices institutionalized disfellowshipping of apostate family members.

Overall? You are clearly someone trying to preach to the choir. This is not the choir. This is the exact opposite of the choir. Your choir-identification technique is sorely in error. You should either leave here and go looking for an actual choir, or you should change your preaching style to something more appropriate to your audience.
I am actually really surprised that you actually took the time to post all of this. I figured most people on this forum would chuckle and move on. I am very impressed.
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28-12-2015, 09:45 AM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(28-12-2015 09:30 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Is this one of those religious trolls that I hear so much about?

This is the drive-by variety. Register, post a wall of unsupported assertions, usually copied from some apologetics website, then never return or read any of the responses so that your views never have to be challenged.

Repeat at any site you can find...
http://www.debate.org/forums/religion/topic/79382/
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/TOK1KP363VD8LOHUG

Congratulate yourself on spreading the word to the ignorant atheists.

Accomplish only showing people questioning their beliefs how weak your arguments are as they get picked apart line by line.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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