Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
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29-12-2015, 04:47 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(28-12-2015 12:18 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I apologize for my grammar fail. I will flog myself with a tube sock full of 3 in wood screws now.

If I remember the sock parties thrown in my honor when I was RCPO in boot camp, the preferred main charge was soap bars.

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29-12-2015, 04:50 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(27-12-2015 03:56 PM)Joshua_Verum Wrote:  The Bible prophets were inspired by God to describe conditions that would indicate an imminent end of the world. Consider some of those prophecies and decide for yourself whether they are being fulfilled in our time.

Ok I did decide.
They are not, and you're just full of shit.

Actually omens and omen reading were forbidden in Deuteronomy. So, you're disobeying your Bible.

There were hundreds of Books of Revelation. The prophets were "inspired" by no one. That concept came into vogue much much later, after Christianity arose. The Book of Revelation in the Bible was included in the canon by a non-unanimous vote. It was probably written by someone high on mushrooms.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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29-12-2015, 04:52 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 04:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(28-12-2015 12:18 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I apologize for my grammar fail. I will flog myself with a tube sock full of 3 in wood screws now.

If I remember the sock parties thrown in my honor when I was RCPO in boot camp, the preferred main charge was soap bars.
Welcome to the new Corps.
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29-12-2015, 05:04 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 04:50 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Actually omens and omen reading were forbidden in Deuteronomy. So, you're disobeying your Bible..

That is not entirely true and here is why. An omen is a sign that precedes an event. Natural phenomena, strange birth defects, or animals acting in unexplainable ways are all commonly seen as omens. Omens can be good or evil, that is, they can foretell a good, positive event or an evil, harmful one. The superstitious might consider finding a heads-up penny a good omen but see a black cat crossing their path as a bad omen.

Omens are closely tied with fortune-telling and divination, as the omen must be “read” or “divined” by someone who knows how. Throughout the ancient world, omens (also referred to as signs and portents) were believed, divined, and obeyed. For example, in ancient Assyria if the king received an evil omen, he would go into hiding and the Assyrians would place a decoy king on the throne in anticipation that the evil event would befall the false king instead of the true one.

Signs sometimes occurred in the Bible in association with prophecies from God. Isaiah the prophet said that he and his children were “signs and symbols” to Israel (Isaiah 8:18). The names of Isaiah’s children were meaningful to Israel’s future (see Isaiah 8:1–4). Also, God made Isaiah walk naked and barefoot as “a sign and omen against Egypt and Cush” (Isaiah 20:3, NET). In this case, God placed Isaiah’s nakedness in the sight of those doomed lands as a sign to them about their destruction. Another divine prophecy accompanied by a sign in the book of Isaiah is the backwards movement of the shadow on the sundial (Isaiah 38:7–8). These events—these “omens”—were clear confirmations of God’s plan.

Another example of a sign or “omen” happened before the exodus. God sent Moses to Pharaoh with a sign: when Moses threw his staff down, God turned it into a serpent. This miracle was specifically designed to convince those who did not believe (Exodus 4:1–5). The presence of a snake in the royal court should also have been a sign to Pharaoh of the plagues to come, but he failed to heed the omen. Another person who tragically failed to heed a divine omen was Pontius Pilate. During Jesus’ trial, Pilate’s wife sent him an urgent message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him” (Matthew 27:19).

These portents occurred in the Bible, usually through God’s prophets, when it served God’s purpose. However, the Bible expressly forbids divination of any kind: “Let no one be found among you who . . . interprets omens. . . . Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord” (Deuteronomy 18:10–12). We do not live by superstition, and we should not be searching for good or evil omens. Our understanding of the spiritual world does not come through the occult. God has given us the ultimate sign of His goodness, love, and grace in Jesus Christ (1 John 4:9). The Bible is our source for spiritual insight (2 Peter 1:19–21).

Thus, an omen given by God through a prophet is not forbidden because it is the will of God. Omens given through mediums and fortune tellers is forbidden because they do not come from God but through demons. I don't expect you to believe any of this but it will explain why Christians don't believe biblical prophecy is applied in Deuteronomy.
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29-12-2015, 05:12 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 05:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 04:50 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Actually omens and omen reading were forbidden in Deuteronomy. So, you're disobeying your Bible..

That is not entirely true and here is why. An omen is a sign that precedes an event. Natural phenomena, strange birth defects, or animals acting in unexplainable ways are all commonly seen as omens. Omens can be good or evil, that is, they can foretell a good, positive event or an evil, harmful one. The superstitious might consider finding a heads-up penny a good omen but see a black cat crossing their path as a bad omen.

Omens are closely tied with fortune-telling and divination, as the omen must be “read” or “divined” by someone who knows how. Throughout the ancient world, omens (also referred to as signs and portents) were believed, divined, and obeyed. For example, in ancient Assyria if the king received an evil omen, he would go into hiding and the Assyrians would place a decoy king on the throne in anticipation that the evil event would befall the false king instead of the true one.

Signs sometimes occurred in the Bible in association with prophecies from God. Isaiah the prophet said that he and his children were “signs and symbols” to Israel (Isaiah 8:18). The names of Isaiah’s children were meaningful to Israel’s future (see Isaiah 8:1–4). Also, God made Isaiah walk naked and barefoot as “a sign and omen against Egypt and Cush” (Isaiah 20:3, NET). In this case, God placed Isaiah’s nakedness in the sight of those doomed lands as a sign to them about their destruction. Another divine prophecy accompanied by a sign in the book of Isaiah is the backwards movement of the shadow on the sundial (Isaiah 38:7–8). These events—these “omens”—were clear confirmations of God’s plan.

Another example of a sign or “omen” happened before the exodus. God sent Moses to Pharaoh with a sign: when Moses threw his staff down, God turned it into a serpent. This miracle was specifically designed to convince those who did not believe (Exodus 4:1–5). The presence of a snake in the royal court should also have been a sign to Pharaoh of the plagues to come, but he failed to heed the omen. Another person who tragically failed to heed a divine omen was Pontius Pilate. During Jesus’ trial, Pilate’s wife sent him an urgent message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him” (Matthew 27:19).

These portents occurred in the Bible, usually through God’s prophets, when it served God’s purpose. However, the Bible expressly forbids divination of any kind: “Let no one be found among you who . . . interprets omens. . . . Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord” (Deuteronomy 18:10–12). We do not live by superstition, and we should not be searching for good or evil omens. Our understanding of the spiritual world does not come through the occult. God has given us the ultimate sign of His goodness, love, and grace in Jesus Christ (1 John 4:9). The Bible is our source for spiritual insight (2 Peter 1:19–21).

Thus, an omen given by God through a prophet is not forbidden because it is the will of God. Omens given through mediums and fortune tellers is forbidden because they do not come from God but through demons. I don't expect you to believe any of this but it will explain why Christians don't believe biblical prophecy is applied in Deuteronomy.

How does one tell a prophet from a medium or fortuneteller? Do prophets have a membership in the Prophets' Guild? A secret decoder ring? A halo?

Your answer is "it's magic" and oddly enough we don't believe you.
When your answer is that, you have abandoned reason.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-12-2015, 05:27 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 05:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 05:04 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  That is not entirely true and here is why. An omen is a sign that precedes an event. Natural phenomena, strange birth defects, or animals acting in unexplainable ways are all commonly seen as omens. Omens can be good or evil, that is, they can foretell a good, positive event or an evil, harmful one. The superstitious might consider finding a heads-up penny a good omen but see a black cat crossing their path as a bad omen.

Omens are closely tied with fortune-telling and divination, as the omen must be “read” or “divined” by someone who knows how. Throughout the ancient world, omens (also referred to as signs and portents) were believed, divined, and obeyed. For example, in ancient Assyria if the king received an evil omen, he would go into hiding and the Assyrians would place a decoy king on the throne in anticipation that the evil event would befall the false king instead of the true one.

Signs sometimes occurred in the Bible in association with prophecies from God. Isaiah the prophet said that he and his children were “signs and symbols” to Israel (Isaiah 8:18). The names of Isaiah’s children were meaningful to Israel’s future (see Isaiah 8:1–4). Also, God made Isaiah walk naked and barefoot as “a sign and omen against Egypt and Cush” (Isaiah 20:3, NET). In this case, God placed Isaiah’s nakedness in the sight of those doomed lands as a sign to them about their destruction. Another divine prophecy accompanied by a sign in the book of Isaiah is the backwards movement of the shadow on the sundial (Isaiah 38:7–8). These events—these “omens”—were clear confirmations of God’s plan.

Another example of a sign or “omen” happened before the exodus. God sent Moses to Pharaoh with a sign: when Moses threw his staff down, God turned it into a serpent. This miracle was specifically designed to convince those who did not believe (Exodus 4:1–5). The presence of a snake in the royal court should also have been a sign to Pharaoh of the plagues to come, but he failed to heed the omen. Another person who tragically failed to heed a divine omen was Pontius Pilate. During Jesus’ trial, Pilate’s wife sent him an urgent message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him” (Matthew 27:19).

These portents occurred in the Bible, usually through God’s prophets, when it served God’s purpose. However, the Bible expressly forbids divination of any kind: “Let no one be found among you who . . . interprets omens. . . . Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord” (Deuteronomy 18:10–12). We do not live by superstition, and we should not be searching for good or evil omens. Our understanding of the spiritual world does not come through the occult. God has given us the ultimate sign of His goodness, love, and grace in Jesus Christ (1 John 4:9). The Bible is our source for spiritual insight (2 Peter 1:19–21).

Thus, an omen given by God through a prophet is not forbidden because it is the will of God. Omens given through mediums and fortune tellers is forbidden because they do not come from God but through demons. I don't expect you to believe any of this but it will explain why Christians don't believe biblical prophecy is applied in Deuteronomy.

How does one tell a prophet from a medium or fortuneteller? Do prophets have a membership in the Prophets' Guild? A secret decoder ring? A halo?

Your answer is "it's magic" and oddly enough we don't believe you.
When your answer is that, you have abandoned reason.
For some reason my sarcasm meter just spiked...strange. I know you think it is all hocus pocus. But to answer your question about "How can we tell the difference?" The bible gives specific instructions on how to identify false prophets.

Jesus warned us that “false Christs and false prophets” will come and will attempt to deceive even God’s elect (Matthew 24:23-27; see also 2 Peter 3:3 and Jude 17-18). The best way to guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers is to know the truth. To spot a counterfeit, study the real thing. Any believer who “correctly handles the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15) and who makes a careful study of the Bible can identify false doctrine. For example, a believer who has read the activities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matthew 3:16-17 will immediately question any doctrine that denies the Trinity. Therefore, step one is to study the Bible and judge all teaching by what the Scripture says.

Jesus said “a tree is recognized by its fruit” (Matthew 12:33). When looking for “fruit,” here are three specific tests to apply to any teacher to determine the accuracy of his or her teaching:

1) What does this teacher say about Jesus? In Matthew 16:15-16, Jesus asks, “Who do you say I am?” Peter answers, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,” and for this answer Peter is called “blessed.” In 2 John 9, we read, “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.” In other words, Jesus Christ and His work of redemption is of utmost importance; beware of anyone who denies that Jesus is equal with God, who downplays Jesus’ sacrificial death, or who rejects Jesus’ humanity. First John 2:22 says, “Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.”

2) Does this teacher preach the gospel? The gospel is defined as the good news concerning Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection, according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). As nice as they sound, the statements “God loves you,” “God wants us to feed the hungry,” and “God wants you to be wealthy” are not the complete message of the gospel. As Paul warns in Galatians 1:7, “Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.” No one, not even a great preacher, has the right to change the message that God gave us. “If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galatians 1:9).

3) Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord? Speaking of false teachers, Jude 11 says, “They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.” In other words, a false teacher can be known by his pride (Cain’s rejection of God’s plan), greed (Balaam’s prophesying for money), and rebellion (Korah’s promotion of himself over Moses). Jesus said to beware of such people and that we would know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20).

For further study, review those books of the Bible that were written specifically to combat false teaching within the church: Galatians, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. It is often difficult to spot a false teacher/false prophet. Satan masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), and his ministers masquerade as servants of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:15). Only by being thoroughly familiar with the truth will we be able to recognize a counterfeit.

As I stated earlier. I am not expecting you to believe the bible. I am only giving you this information to answer your question on how Christians can tell the difference between a real prophetic omens and that from false prophets.
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29-12-2015, 05:34 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 05:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  How does one tell a prophet from a medium or fortuneteller? Do prophets have a membership in the Prophets' Guild? A secret decoder ring? A halo?

There are signs.
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29-12-2015, 05:35 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 05:27 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(29-12-2015 05:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  How does one tell a prophet from a medium or fortuneteller? Do prophets have a membership in the Prophets' Guild? A secret decoder ring? A halo?

Your answer is "it's magic" and oddly enough we don't believe you.
When your answer is that, you have abandoned reason.
For some reason my sarcasm meter just spiked...strange. I know you think it is all hocus pocus. But to answer your question about "How can we tell the difference?" The bible gives specific instructions on how to identify false prophets.

Jesus warned us that “false Christs and false prophets” will come and will attempt to deceive even God’s elect (Matthew 24:23-27; see also 2 Peter 3:3 and Jude 17-18). The best way to guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers is to know the truth. To spot a counterfeit, study the real thing. Any believer who “correctly handles the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15) and who makes a careful study of the Bible can identify false doctrine. For example, a believer who has read the activities of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Matthew 3:16-17 will immediately question any doctrine that denies the Trinity. Therefore, step one is to study the Bible and judge all teaching by what the Scripture says.

Jesus said “a tree is recognized by its fruit” (Matthew 12:33). When looking for “fruit,” here are three specific tests to apply to any teacher to determine the accuracy of his or her teaching:

1) What does this teacher say about Jesus? In Matthew 16:15-16, Jesus asks, “Who do you say I am?” Peter answers, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,” and for this answer Peter is called “blessed.” In 2 John 9, we read, “Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.” In other words, Jesus Christ and His work of redemption is of utmost importance; beware of anyone who denies that Jesus is equal with God, who downplays Jesus’ sacrificial death, or who rejects Jesus’ humanity. First John 2:22 says, “Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.”

2) Does this teacher preach the gospel? The gospel is defined as the good news concerning Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection, according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). As nice as they sound, the statements “God loves you,” “God wants us to feed the hungry,” and “God wants you to be wealthy” are not the complete message of the gospel. As Paul warns in Galatians 1:7, “Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.” No one, not even a great preacher, has the right to change the message that God gave us. “If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galatians 1:9).

3) Does this teacher exhibit character qualities that glorify the Lord? Speaking of false teachers, Jude 11 says, “They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.” In other words, a false teacher can be known by his pride (Cain’s rejection of God’s plan), greed (Balaam’s prophesying for money), and rebellion (Korah’s promotion of himself over Moses). Jesus said to beware of such people and that we would know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20).

For further study, review those books of the Bible that were written specifically to combat false teaching within the church: Galatians, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. It is often difficult to spot a false teacher/false prophet. Satan masquerades as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), and his ministers masquerade as servants of righteousness (2 Corinthians 11:15). Only by being thoroughly familiar with the truth will we be able to recognize a counterfeit.

As I stated earlier. I am not expecting you to believe the bible. I am only giving you this information to answer your question on how Christians can tell the difference between a real prophetic omens and that from false prophets.

"Any believer who... makes a careful study of the Bible can identify false doctrine."

You hit the nail on the head there, juniorBig Grin
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29-12-2015, 05:38 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
Was the Josher a one and done poster? What motivates a silly person like that?
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29-12-2015, 05:56 PM
RE: Who Is God? Why Does He Allow Suffering? And When Will It End?
(29-12-2015 05:27 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  The best way to guard yourself against falsehood and false teachers is to know the truth.

Identifying truth requires demonstrable evidence. All else is opinion.

Quote:To spot a counterfeit, study the real thing. Any believer who “correctly handles the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15) and who makes a careful study of the Bible can identify false doctrine.

If you assume that the bible is "the real thing" then you can identify false doctrine by comparing claims against the bible.
If you assume that the koran is "the real thing" then you can identify false doctrine by comparing claims against the koran.
If you assume that the bhagavad gita is "the real thing" then you can identify false doctrine by comparing claims against the bhagavad gita.
If you assume that the book of mormon is "the real thing" then you can identify false doctrine by comparing claims against the book of mormon.
...

Quote:I am not expecting you to believe the bible. I am only giving you this information to answer your question on how Christians can tell the difference between a real prophetic omens and that from false prophets.

That sounds good until you look at the thousands of Christian denominations with fairly significant doctrinal differences. They are reading the same book but coming away with different interpretations because the book is not at all clear in many areas and downright contradictory in others. Basically it boils down to every person applying their own criteria to distinguish true from false; as I said, it is opinion because there is no good evidence for any of it.

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