Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
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15-05-2013, 12:59 PM
RE: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
(15-05-2013 12:50 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 12:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  Allied strategic bombing destroyed Germany's ability to continue waging effective warfare.
There were many factors involved, not just your hero Stalin.

Were the U.S. and british boming german military that were in the Soviet Union?

Do you not know what strategic bombing is, or what its purpose is?

The capacity of those armies to fight was diminished by the elimination of the factories that created their supplies and the transport infrastructure to move what they did have. Ammunition, aircraft, tanks, oil, engine parts, worker housing, shipyards, rail lines, switching yards, dams, and on and on, were targeted.

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15-05-2013, 01:36 PM
RE: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
(15-05-2013 12:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 12:50 PM)I and I Wrote:  Were the U.S. and british boming german military that were in the Soviet Union?

Do you not know what strategic bombing is, or what its purpose is?

The capacity of those armies to fight was diminished by the elimination of the factories that created their supplies and the transport infrastructure to move what they did have. Ammunition, aircraft, tanks, oil, engine parts, worker housing, shipyards, rail lines, switching yards, dams, and on and on, were targeted.

Yeah I know that the german airforce attacked the Soviet Union as well and they still beat the germans.


You do know that the Soviet government during ww2 basically moved most of it's industrial zone miles away deeper inside Russia. This means that the economy was taken apart and rebuilt just in the time frame of ww2. This is an amazing feat considering most countries can be around for decades and decades and never be able to build any kind of large scale industry.

Are you aware of the scale and resources used in the battles for cities like Leningrad and Stalingrad, just to name a couple. Most of germanys resources were pitted against the Soviet Union by far.
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15-05-2013, 01:40 PM
RE: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
(15-05-2013 01:36 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 12:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  Do you not know what strategic bombing is, or what its purpose is?

The capacity of those armies to fight was diminished by the elimination of the factories that created their supplies and the transport infrastructure to move what they did have. Ammunition, aircraft, tanks, oil, engine parts, worker housing, shipyards, rail lines, switching yards, dams, and on and on, were targeted.

Yeah I know that the german airforce attacked the Soviet Union as well and they still beat the germans.


You do know that the Soviet government during ww2 basically moved most of it's industrial zone miles away deeper inside Russia. This means that the economy was taken apart and rebuilt just in the time frame of ww2. This is an amazing feat considering most countries can be around for decades and decades and never be able to build any kind of large scale industry.

Are you aware of the scale and resources used in the battles for cities like Leningrad and Stalingrad, just to name a couple. Most of germanys resources were pitted against the Soviet Union by far.

The Luftwaffe had practically no strategic bombing capability. The Soviet manufacturing capacity was not affected.

The U.S. and British air forces had thousands of heavy bombers that crippled Germany's industry and transport. The German armies in the East could not be supplied except by stripping the armies on the western front and abandoning Africa.

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15-05-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
(15-05-2013 01:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 01:36 PM)I and I Wrote:  Yeah I know that the german airforce attacked the Soviet Union as well and they still beat the germans.


You do know that the Soviet government during ww2 basically moved most of it's industrial zone miles away deeper inside Russia. This means that the economy was taken apart and rebuilt just in the time frame of ww2. This is an amazing feat considering most countries can be around for decades and decades and never be able to build any kind of large scale industry.

Are you aware of the scale and resources used in the battles for cities like Leningrad and Stalingrad, just to name a couple. Most of germanys resources were pitted against the Soviet Union by far.

The Luftwaffe had practically no strategic bombing capability. The Soviet manufacturing capacity was not affected.

The U.S. and British air forces had thousands of heavy bombers that crippled Germany's industry and transport. The German armies in the East could not be supplied except by stripping the armies on the western front and abandoning Africa.

I know where this conversation is headed...

How many german planes were used on the eastern front compared to the western front? Do you think the germans didn't massively bomb the Soviet Union?

pot shotting the germans while staying out of the european theatre til the last year of the war doesn't count as playing any kind of vital role.
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15-05-2013, 01:53 PM
RE: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
(15-05-2013 01:46 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 01:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  The Luftwaffe had practically no strategic bombing capability. The Soviet manufacturing capacity was not affected.

The U.S. and British air forces had thousands of heavy bombers that crippled Germany's industry and transport. The German armies in the East could not be supplied except by stripping the armies on the western front and abandoning Africa.

I know where this conversation is headed...

How many german planes were used on the eastern front compared to the western front? Do you think the germans didn't massively bomb the Soviet Union?

pot shotting the germans while staying out of the european theatre til the last year of the war doesn't count as playing any kind of vital role.

I know that the Germans didn't 'massively bomb' the Soviet Union because they had essentially no strategic bombing capability. What little they had was wasted in The Battle of Britain.

Allied bombing was not 'pot shots'. The destruction was massive.

And the Allies did not stay out. Africa from 1940 - 1943 (the Germans were defeated and out); Invasion of Sicily - 1943, Invasion of Italy - 1943.

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15-05-2013, 02:26 PM
RE: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
(15-05-2013 01:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 01:46 PM)I and I Wrote:  I know where this conversation is headed...

How many german planes were used on the eastern front compared to the western front? Do you think the germans didn't massively bomb the Soviet Union?

pot shotting the germans while staying out of the european theatre til the last year of the war doesn't count as playing any kind of vital role.

I know that the Germans didn't 'massively bomb' the Soviet Union because they had essentially no strategic bombing capability. What little they had was wasted in The Battle of Britain.

Allied bombing was not 'pot shots'. The destruction was massive.

And the Allies did not stay out. Africa from 1940 - 1943 (the Germans were defeated and out); Invasion of Sicily - 1943, Invasion of Italy - 1943.

You stated: "I know that the Germans didn't 'massively bomb' the Soviet Union because they had essentially no strategic bombing capability"
VS
This states " During the Summer and Autumn of 1942, the Germans dropped 1,000 tonnes of bombs on Stalingrad. A bombing raid on 23 August 1942 caused a huge fire. The bombing turned the city into ruins" http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad


now either wikipedia is lying or you are. which is it.
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15-05-2013, 02:43 PM
RE: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
The Allied forces, all together, through many means, defeated Germany.

Uncle Joe wasn't the prime factor; important, yes.

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15-05-2013, 02:44 PM
RE: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
(15-05-2013 02:26 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 01:53 PM)Chas Wrote:  I know that the Germans didn't 'massively bomb' the Soviet Union because they had essentially no strategic bombing capability. What little they had was wasted in The Battle of Britain.

Allied bombing was not 'pot shots'. The destruction was massive.

And the Allies did not stay out. Africa from 1940 - 1943 (the Germans were defeated and out); Invasion of Sicily - 1943, Invasion of Italy - 1943.

You stated: "I know that the Germans didn't 'massively bomb' the Soviet Union because they had essentially no strategic bombing capability"
VS
This states " During the Summer and Autumn of 1942, the Germans dropped 1,000 tonnes of bombs on Stalingrad. A bombing raid on 23 August 1942 caused a huge fire. The bombing turned the city into ruins" http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad


now either wikipedia is lying or you are. which is it.

The Allies dropped nearly 3,000,000 tons of bombs on Germany. 1000 tons on one city is not in the same league.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-05-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
(15-05-2013 02:44 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-05-2013 02:26 PM)I and I Wrote:  You stated: "I know that the Germans didn't 'massively bomb' the Soviet Union because they had essentially no strategic bombing capability"
VS
This states " During the Summer and Autumn of 1942, the Germans dropped 1,000 tonnes of bombs on Stalingrad. A bombing raid on 23 August 1942 caused a huge fire. The bombing turned the city into ruins" http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad


now either wikipedia is lying or you are. which is it.

The Allies dropped nearly 3,000,000 tons of bombs on Germany. 1000 tons on one city is not in the same league.

Now you have to be pretending just to save face.

Do you honestly believe I only used one example: Stalingrad because the germans only massively bombed ONE city? Fucking really Chas? The Germans massively bombed many cities in Russia.
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15-05-2013, 03:20 PM
Re: Who defeated the Germans? The Soviet Union or the other allies?
Italy and Japan defeated Germany by failing as allies.
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