Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
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31-01-2013, 12:22 AM
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
True. I will not defend a point that is indefensible we are all wrong sometime huh? Well anyone have a better Idea? I could settle for banning all muslim immigration.
(31-01-2013 12:16 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(30-01-2013 11:49 PM)panterasr9 Wrote:  Muslims are a scourge and should be wiped from the face of the planet that is my opinion and I would gladly help.
Replace Muslim with your personal belief label. There you go, you are what you hate.
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31-01-2013, 11:19 AM
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
(30-01-2013 07:43 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(30-01-2013 07:31 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Let's rephrase the question, how would you like the United States to vote (veto)?
There was a question? I missed it. Are you asking if the U.S. should vote for support of one or the other? Pull funding? Not sure, but...

The U.S. shouldn't be funding either, and shouldn't be voting on supporting one or the other. I consider the UN as big of a failure as the League of Nations excepting its longevity. The UN is funded by money, a lot of which comes from America who has more power. Ideally all nations should have equal power, but mankind is flawed, and greedy for power which corrupts the intentions of the congress. I would like to see friendly, open, peaceful debate based on reason and not fueled by greed, but I am not sure if that's possible...now I am rambling again. If I missed the mark can you pose the full question?
I think you answered well. Not voting is a legitimate choice. For example, if Palestinians want the same extent of rights at the United Nations as other nations, then it is nice to vote for that, or not to vote.
I'd even say the situation is better in the U.N., when nations have an equal vote. On the Security council, the U.S. veto blocked all that Palestinians ever wanted for decades. And this veto was essentially the veto of weapon, oil and religious lobby. The Assembly vote showed, that vast majority of governments are more decent than that. Or they wanted just to show U.S. the finger.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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31-01-2013, 02:11 PM
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
(31-01-2013 11:19 AM)Luminon Wrote:  
(30-01-2013 07:43 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  There was a question? I missed it. Are you asking if the U.S. should vote for support of one or the other? Pull funding? Not sure, but...

The U.S. shouldn't be funding either, and shouldn't be voting on supporting one or the other. I consider the UN as big of a failure as the League of Nations excepting its longevity. The UN is funded by money, a lot of which comes from America who has more power. Ideally all nations should have equal power, but mankind is flawed, and greedy for power which corrupts the intentions of the congress. I would like to see friendly, open, peaceful debate based on reason and not fueled by greed, but I am not sure if that's possible...now I am rambling again. If I missed the mark can you pose the full question?
I think you answered well. Not voting is a legitimate choice. For example, if Palestinians want the same extent of rights at the United Nations as other nations, then it is nice to vote for that, or not to vote.
I'd even say the situation is better in the U.N., when nations have an equal vote. On the Security council, the U.S. veto blocked all that Palestinians ever wanted for decades. And this veto was essentially the veto of weapon, oil and religious lobby. The Assembly vote showed, that vast majority of governments are more decent than that. Or they wanted just to show U.S. the finger.
I would like to think that people wouldn't be that petty...I would like to, but it is a real possibility. Also, religious lobby from the US? Seems unlikely in this context, at least to me. Then again we do have a tendency to meddle in things seemingly because we can.

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01-02-2013, 04:32 AM (This post was last modified: 01-02-2013 04:37 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
(31-01-2013 11:19 AM)Luminon Wrote:  I'd even say the situation is better in the U.N., when nations have an equal vote. On the Security council, the U.S. veto blocked all that Palestinians ever wanted for decades. And this veto was essentially the veto of weapon, oil and religious lobby. The Assembly vote showed, that vast majority of governments are more decent than that. Or they wanted just to show U.S. the finger.
They do not, have not and never will have equal votes. If one of the five permanent members in the UN Security Council decides to use its veto power, the votes of the remaining four permanent members, those of the non-permanent members and the views of all other ~190 member states in the UN become null and void.

Ironically enough, the most encompassing organization to have ever existed in human history is also one of the most undemocratic ones. Especially when you consider that the five permanent members have not been elected democratically and that their power cannot be taken away from them legally by anyone ever.

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01-02-2013, 07:52 PM
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
It's impossible to level the playing field, we (as nations, comprised of faulty humans) aren't capable of not using all of our power to get what we want. At least for the foreseeable future. Do the best you can with what you've got I suppose. Also, how is it ironic? Just curious.

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08-02-2013, 06:39 AM
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
:::skips the thread:::

This is a really fucked up subject, way, way too complex for the simple pro/against argument. Specially in a public forum, where every troll gets their chance.

I am a leaning a bit toward Palestine.

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09-02-2013, 07:47 AM
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
I support both. I believe the public institutions of Israel are worthy of a fair degree of respect, as are her people. I believe the Palestinian people have been unfairly displaced and repressed.

I don't see any good solutions out there. If a two-state solution can be negotiated then that is great but it would not be my preferred solution. No, my solution would be for Israel to take in the Palestinians and give every one of them a vote. One state in that area seems more likely to survive than two in the long term, especially with the limited land that Palestine would likely end up getting out of the deal. It is difficult to imagine it becoming prosperous based on anything like the land they have available now.

Still, I don't know how to get to either a one state or a two state solution. Both would have horrendous teething troubles both in a slow transition and a quick transition scenario that could cause one or both states to fail.

The "do nothing" scenario is to allow the remaining Palestinian land to to be gobbled up by Israel over time. Palestinians will continue to have no effective voice, vote, or right to work. Many Palestinians will remain in refugee camps in neighbouring lands, many of these people never having actually lived on Palestinian soil at any time in their lives. Perhaps those living on foreign soil will eventually be taken in by those countries, but it is difficult to see that happening also.

For me the vision of a peaceful stable future looks a lot like a state called Israel, substantially populated by citizens of Palestinian heritage with some probably permanently displaced and settled in neighbouring countries.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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09-02-2013, 03:41 PM
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
Neither. I think that Israel should learn to finance its own defense and stop leaning on the US for millions of dollars in funding.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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09-02-2013, 03:43 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2013 04:24 PM by Zat.)
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
Again, I have not read the whole thread -- however, it seems that Israel is doing the same thing to the Palestinians as the Germans did to the Jews -- it seems to be a no-brainer.
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09-02-2013, 11:39 PM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2013 11:58 PM by Julius.)
RE: Who do you support, Israel or the Palistinians?
(09-02-2013 03:43 PM)Zat Wrote:  Again, I have not read the whole thread -- however, it seems that Israel is doing the same thing to the Palestinians as the Germans did to the Jews -- it seems to be a no-brainer.
The Israelis may be doing some cruel things to the Palestinians...and I think they are. Nevertheless, the Israelis are doing nothing that is comparable to what the NAZIs did to the Jews....and I am amazed you even questioned that they were.

Hey man...get some perspective.

Julius
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